[Vision2020] Fw: Iraq
thansen@moscow.com
thansen@moscow.com
Tue, 6 Apr 2004 18:25:20 GMT
Yes. It takes a real man to pound his chest in Iraq while drowning out the
screams of slaughtered Rwandans.
What is the death count today, Mr. Bush?
> I can't quite put my finger on why I feel this way, but I think Pat and I
> disagree about Iraq and George W. (Elite Force Aviator) Bush. I don't
> know...just a gut feeling.
>
>
> Carl
> Westberg Jr.
>
>
> >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut@moscow.com>
> >To: "vision2020" <vision2020@moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Fw: Iraq
> >Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 10:04:16 -0700
> >
> >Even tho there are areas where killing and warfare is still happening and
> >will no matter what we or anyone else does. There are areas where great
> >things are happening. We won't hear it in our media but the returning
> >forces and in some other quiet places the good news is there. Just as in
> >the story about Rowanda there are those picking up the opportunity to pull
> >away from tribal warfare and begin to form a new country. It will take
> >dilignece on our part and a leadership that won't step down. We do not need
> >leadership that is whining to the UN and other countries that 'we need
> >help' when all they will do is muck up the process with their own demands.
> >As to the war being about oil and revenge for daddy. This shows such a
> >complete ignorance about oil in the world and who Bush is that it isn't
> >even worthy of a site where people claim to be learned.
> >PK
> >
> > Fellow Humans,
> >
> > I'm afraid that I'm always stuck with asking the irritating questions,
> >but here goes:
> >
> > Would as many people have been killed, maimed, tortured, burned, or
> >suffered and continue to suffer the loss of relatives, friends, jobs, the
> >simple pleasures of life, etc. if there had been no war and Saddam was
> >still in power?
> >
> > Is it possible, as disgusting as it may seem, that a strong dictatorship
> >is needed where ethnic and religious hate make peaceful co-existence
> >improbable without an iron hand? Look what happened and is still happening
> >in formerly Yugoslavia after Tito.
> >
> > How many people per day in Iraq were harmed by Saddam as compared to
> >those harmed during the last year?
> >
> > How will thousands of years of hate and dependence on unverifiable
> >religious dogma be erased or altered? Will Iraq (or Afghanistan) become
> >another Israel vs. Arabs going on for who knows how long with huge amounts
> >of extreme human suffering?
> >
> > America and the world with current American leadership is floundering in
> >a mess of their own creating. Will a change of leadership help? Is there
> >a solution at all?
> >
> > I don't have the solution and I suspect no one really does, but needed
> >knowledge is missing at present to solve the problem.
> >
> > Where do all go from here? Please do not answer with more religious
> >dogma -- that is what partially placed all in this horrendous situation!
> >
> > Sorrowfully,
> >
> > Wayne
> >
> > Art Deco (Wayne Fox)
> > deco@moscow.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tom Hansen
> > To: Joan Opyr ; Vision2020 Moscow
> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 8:39 PM
> > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Fw: Iraq
> >
> >
> > Greetings Visionaires -
> >
> > Although Mr. Finkbiner's suggestions are well intended, they are
> >likely to occur immediately following a same-sex marriage conducted by
> >Douglas Wilson.
> >
> > Let's evaluate each of his three requirements in achieving a viable
> >solution.
> >
> > "1) Allows the Iraqi people to develop a government that provides
> >stability and the rule of law."
> >
> > And how is this to be achieved? A government consisting of a
> >coalition representative of local religions? Not likely since the Kurds,
> >Shiites, and Suunis having been warring with each other for over a thousand
> >years.
> >
> > "2) Does not further inflame the region."
> >
> > Nope. No warm fuzzy here, either. See 1) above. And
> >
> > "3) Demonstrates the US can carry out a reasonable plan, rather than
> >flounder from mistake to mistake."
> >
> > This has not been achieved since the Great Hate of the early 1940s. I
> >certainly do not see any FDRs or Harry Trumans on the horizon. As long as
> >the deck consists of Bushes, Cheneys, Quayles, Clintons, and Gores, we will
> >just have to play the cards we are dealt.
> >
> > It was a mistake getting into Iraq. It is becoming a bigger mistake
> >the longer we remain there. I can see us staying until June 30th (when the
> >new government is scheduled to take control), since we promised the people
> >of Iraq (more specificaly the Kurds) that timeline.
> >
> > Tom Hansen
> > Moscow, Idaho
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
> >[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On Behalf Of Joan Opyr
> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 7:34 PM
> > To: Vision2020 Moscow
> > Subject: [Vision2020] Fw: Iraq
> >
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Mike Finkbiner is no longer active on 2020, but he reads the Digest
> >and asked me to forward this.
> >
> > Joan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Finkbiner
> > Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 2:48 PM
> > To: auntiestablishment@hotmail.com
> > Subject: Iraq
> >
> > One of the saddest things I see about the Iraq situation is that
> >people are arguing about why we got into this mess instead of working on
> >finding a solution.
> >
> > Setting the administration's failures aside for a moment, I think
> >we need to work towards building a solution in Iraq that:
> >
> > 1) Allows the Iraqi people to develop a government that provides
> >stability and the rule of law.
> >
> > 2) Does not further inflame the region.
> >
> > 3) Demonstrates the US can carry out a reasonable plan, rather
> >than flounder from mistake to mistake.
> >
> > I don't know if the current administration is capable of making
> >that happen. I'm afraid there might not be <anyone> who could make it
> >happen, but if we spend most of our energy arguing over the cause rather
> >than working towards the solution, we are just going to end up in a worse
> >mess.
> >
> > The Bush administration has demonstrated an ugly level of
> >dishonesty over this whole affair, but what's worse, I'm afraid, is that
> >they have demonstrated a high level of ignorance and incompetance.
> >
> > Stupid and lazy people don't cause many problems, intelligent and
> >active people tend to solve problems, stupid and active people are capable
> >of making a real mess.
> >
> > But it's a mess we can't honorably walk away from so I hope we can
> >concentrate finding a solution that works.
> >
> > Bush deserves to get tossed out on his ear. I hope Kerry can do
> >that without promising to abandon the Iraqi people.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Mike Finkbiner
> > mike_l_f@hotmail.com
> >
> > Civilization is not something inborn or imperishable; it must be
> >acquired anew by every generation.
> > - Will Durant
> >
> >
> >
> >
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