[Vision2020] Iraq - What is to be done?

Joan Opyr auntiestablishment@hotmail.com
Mon, 5 Apr 2004 19:31:14 -0700


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Rwiza writes:

>The war was a HUGE mistake and there is no way we can go back. Who was r=
ight and wrong is not an >issue now. What is our exit strategy? What we h=
ave on the drawing boards is not working and wont >work - come June!

>International assistance is required. Let us put our "Pride" aside and i=
nvolve a wider International >Community and we should be ready to share r=
esponsibilities and risks. The current "coalition" is no >good! =20

>Pretending the 'coalition' is working will get more people killed i.e. m=
ore Iraqis and the "coalition" >soldiers!


Agreed on all points.  Perhaps we could begin by admitting first that our=
 "coalition of the willing" isn't.  For a variety of reasons, and under a=
 variety of political covers, Spain, Poland, and New Zealand have publicl=
y discussed pulling out.  Sure, they're not contributing all that much on=
 the ground, but it doesn't look good in terms of this being an internati=
onal effort, does it?  Britain will stay for the long haul, but, bless th=
eir hearts, they've never known when to quit.

That said, I don't support pulling our troops from Iraq.  We've made this=
 bed; I think we're obliged to lie in it.  Besides, pragmatically, we can=
't afford to have a chaotic, Afghanistan/Yugoslavia-style, ethnically war=
ring Iraq on the border of our primary oil supply.  Our only hope now is =
to eat crow at the U. N. and/or NATO and get a truly international force,=
 of which, alas, we'll still be the primary supplier of troops.  While th=
e situation on the ground at the moment does suggest Vietnam, we might st=
ill be able to salvage something from this mess by following a more Clint=
onian model.  I didn't support our actions in Bosnia or Kosovo (largely b=
ecause I thought the negotiations were one-sided and ignored the rise of =
militant fundamentalism among Bosnian and Kosovar muslims) but that regio=
n of the world is certainly looking more functional these days than Iraq.

BTW, speaking of making beds and lying in them, in case you're wondering =
whose head that is on the pillow next to King George, it's Crown Prince A=
bdullah of the House of Saud.  He's not much fun to sleep with -- he stea=
ls all the covers and only puts out when he's "in the mood" -- but he is =
ours and we are his, until we come up with something better than gasoline=
 to run in our Ford Expeditions.  Too bad we can't run on wishful thinkin=
g.  The Bush Administration is pumping millions of barrels of that.

Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment

PS: I read an article today on the dramatic increase in friendly-fire cas=
ualties in both this and the previous Gulf War.  In Vietnam, friendly fir=
e casualties spanned from 2 to 12%, less in the early years, more during =
operations like the Tet Offensive.  In this war, and in Gulf War I, FF ca=
sualties are estimated at 24%, and Marines and other soldiers on the grou=
nd are saying that that's a low-ball.  Poor planning?  Poor coordination?=
  Poor communication?  I'd be interested to hear from the military folk o=
n the list.       Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : ht=
tp://explorer.msn.com

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <=
DIV>Rwiza writes:</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;The war was a HUGE mis=
take and there is no way we can go back. Who was right and wrong is not a=
n &gt;issue now. What is our exit strategy? What we have on the drawing b=
oards is not working and wont &gt;work - come June!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DI=
V> <DIV>&gt;International assistance is required. Let us put our "Pride" =
aside and involve a wider International &gt;Community and we should be re=
ady to share responsibilities and risks. The current "coalition" is no &g=
t;good! </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&gt;Pretending the 'coalition' is w=
orking will get more people killed i.e. more Iraqis and the "coalition" &=
gt;soldiers!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Agreed on all=
 points.&nbsp; Perhaps we could begin by admitting first that our "coalit=
ion of the willing" isn't.&nbsp; For a variety of reasons, and under a va=
riety of political covers, Spain, Poland, and New Zealand&nbsp;have publi=
cly discussed&nbsp;pulling out.&nbsp; Sure, they're not contributing all =
that much on the ground, but it doesn't look good in terms of this being =
an international effort, does it?&nbsp; Britain will stay for the long ha=
ul, but, bless their hearts,&nbsp;they've never known when to quit.</DIV>=
 <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>That said, I don't support pulling our troops fro=
m Iraq.&nbsp; We've made this bed; I think we're obliged to lie in it.&nb=
sp; Besides, pragmatically, we can't afford&nbsp;to have a chaotic, Afgha=
nistan/Yugoslavia-style, ethnically warring Iraq on the border&nbsp;of ou=
r primary oil supply.&nbsp; Our only hope now is to eat crow at the U. N.=
 and/or NATO and get a truly international force, of which, alas, we'll s=
till be the primary supplier of troops.&nbsp; While the situation on the =
ground at the moment does suggest Vietnam,&nbsp;we might still be able to=
 salvage something from this mess by following&nbsp;a more Clintonian mod=
el.&nbsp; I didn't support our actions in Bosnia or Kosovo (largely becau=
se I thought the negotiations&nbsp;were one-sided and ignored the rise of=
 militant fundamentalism among Bosnian and Kosovar muslims) but that regi=
on of the world is certainly looking&nbsp;more functional these days than=
 Iraq.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>BTW, speaking of making beds and lyin=
g in them, in case you're wondering whose head that is on the pillow next=
 to King George, it's Crown Prince Abdullah of the House of Saud.&nbsp; H=
e's not much fun to sleep with --&nbsp;he steals all the covers and only =
puts out when he's "in the mood"&nbsp;-- but&nbsp;he is ours and we are h=
is, until we come up with something better than gasoline to run in our Fo=
rd Expeditions.&nbsp; Too bad we can't run on wishful thinking.&nbsp;&nbs=
p;The Bush Administration is pumping millions of barrels of that.</DIV> <=
DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</D=
IV> <DIV>PS:&nbsp;I read an article&nbsp;today on the dramatic increase i=
n friendly-fire casualties in&nbsp;both this and the previous Gulf War.&n=
bsp; In Vietnam,&nbsp;friendly fire casualties spanned from 2 to 12%,&nbs=
p;less in the early&nbsp;years, more during operations like the Tet Offen=
sive.&nbsp; In this war, and in&nbsp;Gulf War I, FF&nbsp;casualties are e=
stimated at 24%, and Marines and other soldiers on the ground are saying =
that&nbsp;that's a low-ball.&nbsp; Poor planning?&nbsp; Poor coordination=
?&nbsp; Poor communication?&nbsp; I'd be interested to hear from the mili=
tary folk on the list.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </DIV></BODY><=
/HTML><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer downl=
oad : <a href=3D'http://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br>=
</p>

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