[Vision2020] Re: Evolution and cruelty

[Ralph Nielsen]

>
> From: "David Douglas" <ddouglas@pacsim.com>
> Date: Wed Sep 24, 2003  9:42:30 AM US/Pacific
> To: "'Ralph Nielsen'" <nielsen@uidaho.edu>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: Evolution and cruelty
>
>
> Ralph:
>
> You say:
> "There is no life after death, so we have to live as harmoniously as
> possible with our fellow beings in our life before death."
>
> Looks like a non-sequiter to me.  How does the asserted fact of "no 
> life
> after death" lead by logical necessity ("so") to the 
> requirement/obligation
> ("have") conclusion that  "live as harmoniously as possible with our 
> fellow
> beings in our life before death."?
>
> The point of these discussions is that the lack of any authoritative 
> moral
> accountability (a just God who will judge) means it pretty much doesn't
> matter what moral  or ethical conclusions we come to, at least with 
> respect
> to any ultimate consequences.  It's fine if you want to be a nice guy,
> according to however you want to define it, but what's that got to do 
> with
> me?  Who died (and stopped existing) and left you king to make these 
> "we"
> statements?
>
> You might mean to implicitly add  "or we won't ever be able to live in
> harmony..."  or some such.  To which I would ask, "So?"  Of what 
> difference,
> ultimately, are anyone's so-called good or bad deeds.  How can a mass
> murderer be considered wrong (let alone wicked) and a soup kitchen 
> worker
> good when they are both ultimately going to be former complexes of 
> molecules
> forgotten (by all the former molecular complexes who knew them) in an
> impersonal, empty, amoral universe?
>
RALPH
I don't think the majority of people would regard my statement as a 
non-sequitur at all. If you do, so be it. Those who don't want to live 
in harmony with their fellow beings are dealt with by secular laws 
pased by congresses, parliaments, and legislatures all around the world.

Douglas, you badly need a few lessons in what the Bible says. And what 
science has discovered, too. Science has not discovered any evidence 
for any kind of life after death. And in the Hebrew Bible (OT) there is 
no life after death either. Some ancient Hebrews believed in Sheol 
(Hebrew) or Hades (Greek), but it was not in any meaningful way a real 
life after death. It was just the place where ALL go after they die, 
both good and evil people become equal in Sheol. It is not a place of 
punishment, just where we all go and fade away.

In the very first book in the Bible we read that after we die we return 
to the dust from which we were made. This is about the same as we know 
from science. Many Jews and Christians accept this explanation. As for 
eternal life, God made it quite clear that he doesn't want us to have 
it. When he kicked Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden he put some 
angels with flaming swords at the entrance to prevent them and their 
offspring from going back in and eating of the Tree of Life. Read all  
about it in Genesis 3:19-24.

As for your moral concerns, Douglas, read Deuteronomy 28, one of the 
most important chapters in the Bible. Also read Exodus 20:5b and c and 
Deut. 5:9b and c. A good example of how Yahweh god punishes the 
innocent for the iniquity of their parents is when he killed the baby 
born to David and Bathsheba (2 Samuel 12:1-3). Yahweh is a just God 
indeed, Douglas.