Fw: [Vision2020] Global Warming

Troy Merrill troy1@moscow.com
Tue, 23 Sep 2003 12:35:35 -0700


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Ethics do not rely upon the existence of a supreme creator.  They are =
the result of humans living together for 100,000 years or so and coming =
to agreements about how the individual should behave for the benefit of =
the group.  They are relative as they are constantly being negotiated to =
conform to new circumstances.  But, though relative, they seem to be =
pretty stable over time, prohibitions on murder have been around for a =
long time, similarly prohibitions on wastefulness, repect for local =
mating systems and an underlying sense of fairness seem to be common to =
most societies over a long period of time.  This is probably because =
placing some restraint on individual behavior increase the fitness of =
the group as a whole; yes ethics evolved with humans.

Troy Merrill
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Joshua Nieuwsma=20
To: Troy Merrill=20
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Global Warming


What ethical obligations? Excuse me, but since when did one bag of =
protoplasm and chemical reactions ever have the right to tell another =
similar object to stop doing something to some other bunch of chemical =
compounds erected in a vertical shape and coloured brown and green?=20

It's not that your view is extremist, but it is that you don't have any =
good reason to "minimize the impact i have on the environment..." If you =
want to minimize your own impact, fine. But you have no reason to =
complain that someone else isn't, since its as much their world as =
yours. Who says that burning the rainforest at the rate of a football =
field a day is somehow wrong? Especially from an evolutionary =
standpoint. Just call it natural selection. Humans naturally selecting =
to eliminate a certain type of growth because they want the land =
underneath. What's wrong with that? Evolution supposedly has naturally =
selected certain species over time and let others die out. Is that bad? =
So why stop humans when they are just acting out nature's dictates? It's =
the Intelligence Mandate. We, because we are intelligent far beyond all =
other creatures, get to decide whether those creatures exist.=20

cheers,

Joshua Nieuwsma

Troy Merrill <troy1@moscow.com> wrote:
  Mr. Nieuwsma,

  I don't believe the earth was made for man.  I do in fact believe in =
evolution.  That does not mean that I choose to shirk ethical =
obligations to aknowledge and to the extent possible minimize the impact =
I have on the environment and the other species that share this planet =
with humans.  I don't think that is an extremist point of view.

  Troy Merrill


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Ethics do not rely upon the existence =
of a supreme=20
creator.&nbsp; They are the result of humans living together for 100,000 =
years=20
or so&nbsp;and coming to agreements about how the individual should =
behave for=20
the benefit of the group.&nbsp; They are relative as they are constantly =
being=20
negotiated to conform to new circumstances.&nbsp; But, though relative, =
they=20
seem to be pretty stable over time, prohibitions on murder have been =
around for=20
a long time, similarly prohibitions on wastefulness, repect for local =
mating=20
systems and an underlying sense of fairness seem to be common to most =
societies=20
over a long period of time.&nbsp; This is probably because placing some=20
restraint on individual behavior increase the fitness of the group as a =
whole;=20
yes ethics evolved with humans.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Troy Merrill</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Djoshuahendrik@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:joshuahendrik@yahoo.com">Joshua=20
Nieuwsma</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dtroy1@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:troy1@moscow.com">Troy=20
Merrill</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 23, 2003 12:03 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Global Warming</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>What ethical obligations? Excuse me, but since when did one bag of=20
protoplasm and chemical reactions ever have the right to tell another =
similar=20
object to stop doing something to some other bunch of chemical compounds =
erected=20
in a vertical shape and coloured brown and green? <BR></DIV>
<DIV>It's not that your view is extremist, but it is that you don't have =
any=20
good reason to "minimize the impact i have on the environment..." If you =
want to=20
minimize your own impact, fine. But you have no reason to complain that =
someone=20
else isn't, since its as much their world as yours. Who says that =
burning the=20
rainforest at the rate of a football field a day is somehow wrong? =
Especially=20
from an evolutionary standpoint. Just call it natural selection. Humans=20
naturally selecting to eliminate a certain type of growth because they =
want the=20
land underneath. What's wrong with that? Evolution supposedly has =
naturally=20
selected certain species over time and let others die out. Is that bad? =
So why=20
stop humans when they are just acting out nature's dictates? It's the=20
<EM>Intelligence Mandate</EM>. We, because we are intelligent far beyond =
all=20
other creatures, get to decide whether those creatures exist. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>cheers,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Joshua Nieuwsma</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><B><I>Troy Merrill &lt;troy1@moscow.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dreplbq=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px =
solid">
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  <STYLE></STYLE>

  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Mr. Nieuwsma,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't believe the earth was made =
for man.&nbsp;=20
  I do in fact believe in evolution.&nbsp; That does not mean that I =
choose to=20
  shirk ethical obligations to aknowledge and to the extent possible =
minimize=20
  the impact I have on the environment and the other species that share =
this=20
  planet with humans.&nbsp; I don't think that is an extremist point of=20
  view.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Troy =
Merrill</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
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