[Vision2020] Re: Cloning

Donovan Arnold donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:49:13 -0700


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<P>OK Robert,</P>
<P>Here is another scenario for you. You are sitting on a jury. You watch a tape of man that enters a store, rapes the clerk, steals the money, and than shoots the clerk. Pretty open and shut case with DNA and video tape. But not so when they have two or three clones. </P></DIV>
<P>If I was a criminal I would clone myself 5 times. Send my clones out&nbsp;to rob, steal, and rape. And shy of catching them in the act in person, you could not get a conviction. Regardless of all the DNA and video tapes they had. </P>
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<P>This happens once in a while with twins and even people that look alike. A guy was recently&nbsp;&nbsp;charged with the burning down&nbsp;of a house, his friends and family say it was not him, but the police think otherwise. Another man was recently released from prison for a false conviction of murder, turns out it was a guy of the same height, age, weight, hair color, and body type. Now shy of fingerprints or a retinal scan, not much of a chance of knowing which of the three or five clones it was.</P>
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<P>With twins, it is rare. But if a twisted person can clone themselves for 3 grand a piece, it could be tempting to create this scenario. Hard to convict any of them when clone 1 claims he was with clone&nbsp; 2, clone 2 claims he was with clone 3 and clone 3 claims he was clone 1 at the time of the crime. And how would the&nbsp;victim know if it was clone 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5? </P>
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<P>If cloning becomes cheap, you will have more and more twins and the inability to deal with the all the consequences. Security, driving records, child molestation, robbery, college degrees, all messed up, we will not know who is who.</P>
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<P>In terms of your clone to take out the garbage, I think it would end up being you that takes out the garbage while your clone catches the last quarter of the football game. :)</P>
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<P>Donovan J Arnold<BR><BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Robert Dickow" <DICKOW@UIDAHO.EDU>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Cloning 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:19:55 -0700 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;----- Original Message ----- 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;From: "Donovan Arnold" <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;&gt; "However, it does seem reasonable to protect people 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;&gt; from being cloned without their permission." 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; How are you going to do this? Seal everyone in a bubble? 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;Reasonable counter, but it was yourself who suggested the need to protect 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;people. Anyway, we would do it by passing laws, I suppose. Bubbles are too 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;expensive and cumbersome. We would have to rely on the same methods we use 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;presently to protect people from getting murdered, for example. People will 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;inevitably get murdered, but we do our best to prevent it. We haven't simply 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;avoided or outlawed the manufacture and sale of guns, poisons, knives, 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;explosives, piano wire, etc simply because we can't prevent the murders that 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;will be almost certain to result from at least a few of these things. 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;(Yikes...sounds like "Guns don't kill people....people kill people") 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;How much would the Chinese government pay 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;to get a hold of a hair left behind the top medalist 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; in swimming? 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;The Chinese government probably won't pay anything. They'll just hijack it. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;But....I think the solution to the 'top medalist in swimming' example is 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;simple. Since the source of such clones will be identified by their physical 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;appearance, any and all medals garnered by them will go automatically to 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;the original genetic owner rather than the clone. Simple solution. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;The notion of countries, commercial concerns, etc., managing to actually 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;make use of a clone for the purposes you suggest are just a little too 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;far-fetched to be a reasonable concern. I am not convinced that it will ever 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;be practical to develop clones in the way you suggest. No matter how much 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;coercion, viscious beatings, or offerings of delectable sweets that a state 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;applies to a clone of, say, William Shakespeare, they will most likely not 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;be able to make the clone produce masterful plays. Shakespeare's genius may 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;have had something to do with his genes, but probably much more likely he 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;was, at some important moment in his life, 'turned on' to poetry and writing 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;due to some spark of experience. Same thing goes for high jumpers and jazz 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;trumpet virtuosi. These factors can not be engineered or planned. 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>&gt;Bob Dickow (who wants a clone of himself so that the clone can take out the 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt;garbage on Monday nights instead of himself.) 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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<DIV></DIV>&gt; 
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