[Vision2020] RE: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold

Tom Hansen thansen@moscow.com
Thu, 18 Sep 2003 18:27:08 -0700


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Mr. Arnold -

I was medevac'd from Kitzingen, Germany to San Diego, California in November
1986.  After numerous operations (and therapy) I was reassigned to Medical
Hold Detachment, Fort Ord, California in September 1987.  I went before
several Medical Retention Boards and was disably retired (at 45%) in July
1989.

I suggest that you find somebody that has a more thorough grasp on the
English language and have them explain the above paragraph to you, ok?

Tom Hansen
  -----Original Message-----
  From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
Behalf Of Donovan Arnold
  Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:45 AM
  To: tomh@uidaho.edu; thansen@moscow.com; dmcourtn@moscow.com;
vision2020@moscow.com
  Subject: [Vision2020] RE: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold


  Tom,



  Usually, a tour of duty is followed upon by a second tour of duty. I am
happy that you admit that you were only under Clark for just one month at
most. Just was my point.

  Not to get to personal (if so I apologize) but I must bring it up for
because of a contradiction in your stories. I might be incorrect about this.
But I thought you said you were disabled because of a military injury and
left the military for that reason. It would seem odd that someone that  was
injured would be serving right up to the time they finished their tour of
duty. I would expect a military leave for at least awhile. Unless the injury
was a complex back injury that developed over a long period of time.

  I guess what I am getting at here is: Where you actually serving during
August and September of 1984, or did you get injured, recover, and than come
back to the award for the tour of duty? It just does not make any sense to
me, which leads me to doubt your words.

  Keep in mind, I know I didn't serve in the military, and understand the
difference. However, I grew up on military bases, and studied the military
most my youth and had planned entering in it most my life until about 23
years old. I tried to get into the military 5 times, and almost did, but I
have a rare kidney illness that is fatal to 25% of the people that have it
and does not have a cure. You always have all you live, it lies dormant, or
it doesn't and kills you. The military refused to accept that risk.

  In terms of a wager, I have moral problems with using money. But I will
bet you this. If you can find me five people that you served with you to
state the same things that you proclaim about Clark, and served under Clark,
that say he was a "bad commander, a pompous ass, and only out for
advancement of his career", I will wash your car once a week for 5 weeks. If
not, you wash my car once a week for 5 weeks.

  Here are the conditions. If you find me five, you win, if you don't I win.
In order to confirm, I want them to call me and email me a scanned copy of
their military ID.

  Do you except?

  Donovan J Arnold





  >From: Thomas Hansen
  >To: 'Donovan Arnold' , Thomas Hansen , thansen@moscow.com,
dmcourtn@moscow.com, vision2020@moscow.com
  >Subject: RE: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold
  >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:15:53 -0700
  >
  >WHAT?!?!?! Where (in the HELL) did you get the idea that Colonel Clark
  >kicked me out of the Army?
  >
  >Do you understand what "end of tour" means. A "tour of duty" starts when
  >you sign into a unit and ends when you sign out of that unit either for
  >separation purposes or (as in my case) to report to your next assignment
  >(mine being Company D, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry (Mechanized), Harvey
  >Barracks, Kitzingen, Germany).
  >
  >My judgement of Clark's character is not only based on the month from his
  >arrival to my departure, but the next six months whereupon some close
  >friends of mine requested reassignment.
  >
  >Now, if you wish to discuss the reasons for their requests, I am
perfectly
  >open for that discussion. Although, you may not like what I have to pass
on
  >from what my friends have told me.
  >
  >Tom Hansen
  >
  >
  >-----Original Message-----
  >From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanarnold@hotmail.com]
  >Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:07 AM
  >To: tomh@uidaho.edu; thansen@moscow.com; dmcourtn@moscow.com;
  >vision2020@moscow.com
  >Subject: Re: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold
  >
  >
  >
  >Tom,
  >
  >I have no doubt that you were at the base in September. But if you left
in
  >September of 1984 and Clark took over in August 1984, I see little of how
  >well you make any judgement of character.
  >
  >I would bet, that you were not under the command of Clark for more than 5
or
  >6 weeks. Are you mad at Clark because he kicked you out of the military?
  >What did you do?
  >
  >Donovan J Arnold
  >
  >
  >
  > >From: Thomas Hansen
  > >To: 'Donovan Arnold' , thansen@moscow.com, dmcourtn@moscow.com,
  >vision2020@moscow.com
  > >Subject: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold
  > >Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:56:29 -0700
  > >
  > >Mr. Arnold -
  > >
  > >You appear to be so certain about your claims that I openly lied to
this
  > >forum.
  > >
  > >I have a little wager for you. You name the amount (and make it worth
my
  > >while). We will have a reliable person (a subscriber to this list) hold
the
  >
  > >funds.
  > >
  > >If I should be able to provide (through the miracle of scanning a copy)
a
  > >photo of me (then SFC Hansen) receiving the Army Commendation Medal,
second
  >
  > >oak leaf cluster (end-of-tour award), from Colonel Wesley Clark at a
  >command
  > >formation in September 1984, would that suffice? Or would you prefer
DNA?
  > >
  > >Waiting,
  > >
  > >Tom Hansen
  >
  > _____
  >
  >Express yourself with MSN Messenger
  >6.0 -- download now!
  >


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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D427051219-18092003>Mr. =
Arnold=20
-</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D427051219-18092003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D427051219-18092003>I =
was medevac'd=20
from Kitzingen, Germany to San Diego, California in November 1986.&nbsp; =
After=20
numerous operations (and therapy) I was reassigned to Medical Hold =
Detachment,=20
Fort Ord, California in September 1987.&nbsp; I went before several =
Medical=20
Retention Boards and was disably retired (at 45%) in July=20
1989.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D427051219-18092003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D427051219-18092003>I =
suggest that=20
you find somebody that has a more thorough grasp on the English language =
and=20
have them explain the above paragraph to you, ok?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D427051219-18092003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D427051219-18092003>Tom =

Hansen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
vision2020-admin@moscow.com=20
  [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Donovan=20
  Arnold<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:45 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
  tomh@uidaho.edu; thansen@moscow.com; dmcourtn@moscow.com;=20
  vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] RE: Open Wager =
to Mr.=20
  Arnold<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P>Tom,<BR><BR></P>
  <DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>Usually, a tour of duty is&nbsp;followed upon by a second tour of =
duty. I=20
  am happy that you admit that you were only under Clark for just one =
month at=20
  most. Just was my point. </P></DIV>
  <P>Not to get to personal (if so I apologize) but I must bring it up =
for=20
  because of a contradiction in your stories. I might be incorrect about =
this.=20
  But I thought you said you were disabled because of a military injury =
and left=20
  the military for that reason. It would seem odd that someone =
that&nbsp; was=20
  injured would be serving right up to the time they finished their tour =
of=20
  duty. I would expect a military leave for at least awhile. Unless the =
injury=20
  was a complex back injury that developed over a long period of =
time.</P></DIV>
  <P>I guess what I am getting at here is: Where you actually serving =
during=20
  August and September of 1984, or did you get injured, recover, and =
than come=20
  back to the award for the tour of duty? It just does not make any =
sense to me,=20
  which leads me to doubt your words.</P>
  <P>Keep in mind, I know I didn't serve in the military, and understand =
the=20
  difference. However, I grew up on military bases, and studied the =
military=20
  most my youth and had planned entering&nbsp;in it most my life until=20
  about&nbsp;23 years old. I tried to get into the military 5 times, and =
almost=20
  did, but I have a rare kidney illness that is fatal to 25% of the =
people that=20
  have it and does not have a cure. You always have all you live, it =
lies=20
  dormant, or it doesn't and kills you. The military refused to accept =
that=20
  risk. </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>In terms of a wager, I have moral problems with using money. But I =
will bet=20
  you this. If you can find me five people that you served with you to =
state the=20
  same things that you proclaim about Clark, and served under Clark, =
that say he=20
  was a "bad commander, a pompous ass, and only out for advancement of =
his=20
  career", I will wash your car&nbsp;once a week for 5 weeks. If not, =
you wash=20
  my car&nbsp;once a week for 5 weeks. </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>Here are the conditions. If you find me five, you win, if you don't =
I win.=20
  In order to confirm, I want them to call me and email me a scanned =
copy of=20
  their military ID. </P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>Do you except?</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P>Donovan J Arnold</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <P><BR><BR>&nbsp;</P>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Thomas Hansen <TOMH@UIDAHO.EDU>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: 'Donovan Arnold' <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>, =
Thomas Hansen=20
  <TOMH@UIDAHO.EDU>, thansen@moscow.com, dmcourtn@moscow.com,=20
  vision2020@moscow.com=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: RE: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 11:15:53 -0700=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;WHAT?!?!?! Where (in the HELL) did you get the idea =
that=20
  Colonel Clark=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;kicked me out of the Army?=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Do you understand what "end of tour" means. A "tour of =
duty"=20
  starts when=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;you sign into a unit and ends when you sign out of that =
unit=20
  either for=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;separation purposes or (as in my case) to report to =
your next=20
  assignment=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;(mine being Company D, 1st Battalion, 15th Infantry=20
  (Mechanized), Harvey=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Barracks, Kitzingen, Germany).=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;My judgement of Clark's character is not only based on =
the=20
  month from his=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;arrival to my departure, but the next six months =
whereupon some=20
  close=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;friends of mine requested reassignment.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Now, if you wish to discuss the reasons for their =
requests, I=20
  am perfectly=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;open for that discussion. Although, you may not like =
what I=20
  have to pass on=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;from what my friends have told me.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Tom Hansen=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;-----Original Message-----=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: Donovan Arnold [mailto:donovanarnold@hotmail.com] =

  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 11:07 AM=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: tomh@uidaho.edu; thansen@moscow.com; =
dmcourtn@moscow.com;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;vision2020@moscow.com=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Tom,=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;I have no doubt that you were at the base in September. =
But if=20
  you left in=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;September of 1984 and Clark took over in August 1984, I =
see=20
  little of how=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;well you make any judgement of character.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;I would bet, that you were not under the command of =
Clark for=20
  more than 5 or=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;6 weeks. Are you mad at Clark because he kicked you out =
of the=20
  military?=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;What did you do?=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Donovan J Arnold=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;From: Thomas Hansen=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;To: 'Donovan Arnold' , thansen@moscow.com,=20
  dmcourtn@moscow.com,=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;vision2020@moscow.com=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;Subject: Open Wager to Mr. Arnold=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 10:56:29 -0700=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;Mr. Arnold -=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;You appear to be so certain about your claims that =
I=20
  openly lied to this=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;forum.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;I have a little wager for you. You name the amount =
(and=20
  make it worth my=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;while). We will have a reliable person (a =
subscriber to=20
  this list) hold the=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;funds.=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;If I should be able to provide (through the =
miracle of=20
  scanning a copy) a=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;photo of me (then SFC Hansen) receiving the Army=20
  Commendation Medal, second=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;oak leaf cluster (end-of-tour award), from Colonel =
Wesley=20
  Clark at a=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;command=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;formation in September 1984, would that suffice? =
Or would=20
  you prefer DNA?=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;Waiting,=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt;Tom Hansen=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt; _____=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;Express yourself with MSN Messenger=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;6.0 -- download now!=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>&gt;=20
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV></DIV></DIV><BR clear=3Dall>
  <HR>
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fastest:</B>=20
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