[Vision2020] It ought perhaps be said to THE STORM, et al

[Benjamin Nieuwsma]

Dear Mr. the Storm et al,

I presume that this message was intended for me??? However, one can never be
too sure... (I say! "Benny Boy", not too shabby, though perhaps a tad
misleading...) My dear sir, you wax eloquent most exceeding well. Please
accept my sincerest congratulations for your most delightful correspondence.

I shall endeavor to answer your questions, comments, statements...etc. as I
best know how, even though I do not fully understand how my original email
solicited some of the responses.

You start out with "I have a question." So far, so good... at least we
understand that you have a question. From there, you inquire, "do you really
got the rocks to try and in some way... Hope to convince these wise and
knowledgeable visionaries, that the slaves in the pre-civil war era were not
abused?"

Unfortunately, I have a few slight problems with this question, which I
would like to point out before proceeding:

In this question, you state that the people to whom I directed my query are
"wise and knowledgeable visionaries." Interestingly, one of the people
unconvinced was you. This must make you one of those "wise and knowledgeable
visionaries", I presume. And since you have doubtless read the Bible many
times over before admonishing me to do so, you must know the proverb that
begins, "let another man praise you and not your own lips." Hmmmm...

Secondly, by asking me if I really hope to be able to convince these "wise
and knowledgeable visionaries," you are in essence saying that the cards are
stacked against me so to speak. This is a propaganda technique know oddly
enough as "stacking the cards" Double hmmm... smells of neo-nazi scent.

To answer your question partially, "I at least have sufficient enough
audacity to attempt to answer you, however lacking I may or may not be in
loquacity."

Next you tell me that I cannot brush over the "facts". This is first of all
assuming that you have them. Now, I will agree that you have some facts,
however I will not agree that you either have within your reach or know all
of the facts. The problem that you are running into, my dear sir, is that
you are thinking in terms of universals. You are thinking that slaves were
always mistreated. My point was not that they were never mistreated --
indeed, I know right well that that is very false. In my former email, my
point was that in madam Rose's email, she was including in her sweeping
generalization even some former slaves.

As far as the holocaust goes, I am fully aware of much of what took place
then and am not about to deny it.

Furthermore, I would argue that the fallacy, which you make in your
paragraph to illustrate your point, is indeed your fallacy and in no way
more mine. You are arguing religiously that because you have several
examples of slaves being mistreated that most of them had to have been.
However, neither of us has provided sufficient enough information to prove
overwhelmingly that slaves either were or were not mistreated.

Then you put in a jibe about it being wise to learn history. Again, we
agree, though I am not sure really how this related. I could readily say the
same to you. "why don't they teach logic in these schools????"

Then you address me as more than one person. Quite remarkable...though
slightly impossible, I'm afraid.  Next you write "And for those of you who
wish to lecture us on the bible (again associating yourself with "the wise
and knowledgeable visionaries") I request that you first read the bible [The
whole Bible and not just the tid bits that you can use to poison the masses]
as once you have you will quickly discover the error of you ways."

My dear sir, you are presuming yourself necessarily right and me necessarily
wrong, (not to mention your complete ignorance of my Bible knowledge)  Since
when did "the storm" become the new standard for truth? I wish I had at
least been able to vote on it. However, you need be careful, sir. To quote
Socrates, "I am wiser than all men because this I know, that I know
nothing."
 As far as the scripture you quoted goes, I say amen to it, (in so much as
it is
accurately quoted)

As far as the last paragraph goes, you are correct sir, "but it would appear
that we look at this business from different ends of the spectrum." For you,
you write a dissertation and then at the end of it ask me why you were
writing to me, contrary to the purpose of this forum. For me, I write to
you, realizing that everything we do in some way affects others, realizing
that ideology, philosophy, sociology and epistemology are the basis for
community and society. People make choices based on their beliefs. Therefore
when we discuss the moral and practical ramifications of actions, we are
discussing the very basis of what this forum is all about. You cannot build
a good building without a foundation, sir. It is much easier to get
something done when everyone agrees that it is right, than to get everyone
to agree that something ought to be done. It is getting to that point of
agreement that takes the time. J



Pray forgive the lengthiness of this email.



Cheers!



Benjamin







"The tangent is the point" Cornelius Van Till







----- Original Message -----
From: "the storm" <the_s_t_o_r_m@hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 1:15 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] It must be said


> My Dear Benny boy,
>
> I have to ask you a question... Just man to man to large mailing list. Do
> you really got the rocks to try and in some way... Hope to convince these
> wise and knowledgeable Visionaries, that the slaves in the pre-civil war
era
> were not abused?
>
> http://history.cc.ukans.edu/carrie/docs/texts/canadian_slaves.html
>
> You can't brush over the facts, you can't lessen the truth that these
people
> were abused horribly. And your tone smacks of those creatures who call
> themselves neo-nazi's and claim the the holocaust either didn't happen at
> all, or was way over exaggerated, because after all their were a few jews
> who weren't mal-treated that means that the other 6 million must have been
> treated well too.
>
> Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it... Whether that
> history be the civil war or world war II.
>
> And for those of you who wish to lecture us on the bible I request that
you
> first read the bible [The whole Bible and not just the tid bits that you
can
> use to poison the masses] as once you have you will quickly discover the
> error of you ways.
>
>
> James 3
>
>
> Taming the Tongue
>
> 1Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you
> know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
> 2We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says,
> he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check.
> 3When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can
> turn the whole animal. 4Or take ships as an example. Although they are so
> large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small
> rudder wherever the pilot wants to go.
> 5Likewise the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great
boasts.
> Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark.
> 6The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body.
It
> corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and
is
> itself set on fire by hell.
> 7All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and creatures of the sea are being
> tamed and have been tamed by man,
> 8but no man can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly
> poison.
> 9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men,
> who have been made in God's likeness.
> 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should
> not be.
> 11Can both fresh water and salt[1] water flow from the same spring?
> 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs?
Neither
> can a salt spring produce fresh water.
>
> Two Kinds of Wisdom
>
> 13Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good
life,
> by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
> 14But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do
not
> boast about it or deny the truth.
> 15Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly,
unspiritual,
> of the devil.
> 16For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder
and
> every evil practice.
> 17But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then
> peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit,
> impartial and sincere.
> 18Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.
>
> Also, while I have your time I thought this forum was intended to imagine
> what the moscow-pullman area would be like in the year 2020? Not what can
I
> say to drive people crazy in the year 2003? We all can live in harmony, no
> matter what your race color or creed and if you disagree with me that's
> perfectly fine. Because, you will be showing your true colors that your
> intent is to openly cause disorder, miss trust, and open hatred. Truth
shall
> set you free are those of you willing to act in the above manner willing
to
> tell the truth about your goals? I'm guessing not... But I will openly
tell
> the truth we all need to get along, or we are no community at all.
>
>
> Sean
>
>
My dear Rose Huskey et all,
I write because I am concerned about a
possible incongruity. Pray consider who you are including in this biased
attack of yours. To call the testimony of Lindsey Faucette a mere
delusional image, albeit lovingly painted, is I fear a sign of racism on
your part. Are you saying that your encyclopedia is better than an
actual experience? Consider the time difference between now and when
this occurred. Consider also the time when your "unbiased" article was
written. Such consideration should quickly bring you to a full
realization of the negligance in including in your critique a former
slave who clearly was seeking to tell the truth about what happened to
her and how people treated her. She was merely trying to tell the whole
truth about what happened to her. In trying to defend your ideal, you
seem to be attacking it instead, this is most saddening...20 Yet
there was another consern I had about this post. Is your failure to = >use
qualifiers an attempt to take away your responsibility in supporting =
this source espoused by you? Because by saying merely that "this =
provides an overview", you seem to be presuming it to be correct. =
Furthermore, by calling it "factual information", you again assert your =
certainty of its veracity. And yet, you have given no proof as to its =
accuracy--though perhaps that is of little importance. I mean, what is =
the word of a former slave woman to that of our modern, though =
historically removed, enlightened encyclopedias? Which really is better,
Thucydides' account of the Peloponnesian War or Livy's account of the =
founding of Rome? Where is this woman's place in history anyway? Are you
desiring to forget her and her experience in favor of our modern =
theories? I hope that even you would not desire to blot out her name =
from the annals of history... Most Sincerely, Cheers! Benjamin


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