[Vision2020] Response to Joshua
Jim Meyer
m1e2y3e4@moscow.com
Wed, 12 Nov 2003 00:32:08 -0800
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Joshua,=20
I appreciate your reply to me. I am glad you are proud of your =
accomplishments and your school. I mean this. My daughter attended Logos =
for several years and I agree with you that her education was fine, =
except for (and I am not making this up) her and my concerns about how =
slavery was presented and my concerns about the "us against" them =
mentality typified by the many "heathen" comments used when talking =
about those outside the school. =20
In reading your first post directed at me, I thought, here is a good =
person who is standing up for his school. Great. In reading your second =
post, however, I would guess that you have led a sheltered and =
privileged life. I excuse your arrogance because you are young, but I =
would not excuse your mentor who taught to you the "government" school =
idea, along with the me, me, Christian me attitude.
Unlike you, and unlike the other elite students at Logos School, there =
are kids in the public school system that have parents who don't love =
them and can't or won't care for them. There are kids who come to school =
partially clothed. There are kids who come to school so poorly taken =
care of that the staff (of the nasty government school) donate clothing =
to them or wash their clothes, or feed them, or even give them shoes. =
There are abused kids. There are kids from broken, non-functional =
families. There are kids with real disabilities that go way beyond =
"needed help walking." There are kids with severe mental disabilities, =
severe physical disabilities, attention deficit problems, and kids who =
will never meet the Logos standards, even if they tried their best every =
day of their lives. By the way, I have personal knowledge of a student =
that didn't make it at Logos, not because she didn't try but because she =
just wasn't quite as quick as the rest. She was asked to leave. =20
=20
You said, "I'd like mine (tax money) back...it didn't benefit me in any =
way..." Personally, I would double my taxes if it would keep kids from =
becoming throw-aways. You know what a throw away is don't you? It is the =
kind of person who ends up in prison, then costs everybody more in the =
end. And what a waste of a human being.You seem to want to live in your =
own little world and ignore those who are the least able to fend for =
themselves. Your total disregard for the less privileged among us seems =
frankly mean-hearted to me. Shame on you.
You say Logos is a Christian school. Well, I ask you, who sounds more =
Christian, the public school employees who feed those who are not fed =
and clothe those who are not clothed or you?=20
About those programs you want to cut, you may not need or want those =
programs at Logos (though I suspect some jealousy) but they are very =
important for the well being of some students. For some, these programs =
are the only thing keeping them in school. And off the streets. And out =
of jail. =20
I do not blame you for your behavior. I blame your mentor. I bet I can =
guess who that is.That is why I suggested that Logos question its =
affiliation with anyone who preaches such divisive, selfish, and =
unchristian attitudes. Thank you for helping prove my point.
Sincerely,=20
Jim Meyer
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Joshua Nieuwsma=20
To: Jim Meyer ; vision=20
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Devisiveness Must Stop
Dear Mr. Meyer,
Please be so kind as to get facts right before making charges. I refer =
specifically to these sentence: To be blunt, until Logos accepts all =
students, including those with serious mental, physical, and behavioral =
handicaps, then those vocal group members have absolutely nothing to say =
worth hearing about the cost of public education. Mr. Meyers, while I =
attended Logos I recall there being a "disadvantaged" child that =
attended school there for at least a year. He was definitely handicapped =
(needed help walking for one thing). If you doubt the veracity of this =
eye-witness account in the same spirit that you accuse others of having =
all the appearance of evil whether they are truly good or not, I =
encourage you to contact the school superintendent, Mr. Tom Garfield. =
But as to the idea that group members aren't allowed to comment on the =
cost of public education if they don't provide complete services, that =
is ridiculous anyhow. I! s someone that doesn't drive a car unable to =
comment on road safety? You might as well go live in the time of =
Krushchev or something if you want to place that sort of censureship =
upon a person's right to comment critically about an institution that he =
pays for.
As a Logos graduate, I am naturally defensive of attacks upon that =
most excellent institution, which regularly performs far above the =
quality of the local government school and at a cost much lower. =
example: Average ACT scores. The 2003 graduating class of MHS was 191 =
students. 82% of these took the ACT. Their collective score was 23.2 . =
>From any reasonable perspective (I.E. assuming that the class wasn't a =
bunch of nit-wits, easy to assume given the number of students) this =
class is not at all prepared for college. My graduating class of 2002 =
graduating class had 21 students. Almost everyone took the ACT (I don't =
know the exact number). Our collective score was 28.9. Lest it be =
thought that the class was a bunch of brains, the class before mine was =
about 28 ACT. The average ACT score of graduates of MHS is 23.2, with =
82% of the class taking it. With that sort of appalli! ng record, I =
think Logos associates and alumni have alot to say about district =
schools. If anything, the taxpayer-supported school ought to be asking =
for advice to improve their education.=20
How about the National Merit Finalist statistics? I don't believe a =
logos class (always averaging around 20 students) has ever failed to =
produce at least 1 NMF. That's an average of about 5% per year. In 2003 =
MHS, out of 191 students, produced 1 national merit finalist. Hmmm... =
although more data is needed, one would think that such an excellent =
educational system (which needs more money to be more excellent) would =
have produced at least 9 national merit finalists, if their classes are =
comparable to Logos'. But alas, they only produced 1 as well.
My sources: =
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/usr/nsrs/sorder.html?NETSCAPE_LIVEWIRE.s=
rc=3Dyahoo&state=3DID&countyid=3D29 to enter in your information and get =
a free report of the public school district. =
http://www.homefair.com/homefair/servlet/ActionServlet?pid=3D187&cid=3Dya=
hoo&art=3DschoolFAQ tells you their method of receiving and reporting =
information.
Logos School has approximately a 20:1 student teacher ratio. MHS has a =
13:1 student teacher ratio. Logos produces high quality students that =
rarely fail to enter the university of their choice (i.e. Princeton, =
Washington&Lee, Georgia Tech, etc.) and average around 28 on the ACT =
(about 80% of total possible score). MHS produces students that score a =
64% of total score on the ACT or a measly 23.2.=20
Mr. Meyer, you said: They whine about taxes but offer no productive =
solutions. Logos is clearly a productive solution to the problem of good =
education in the Moscow community. And it is run despite the taxes that =
each parent pays for another school which is trashing its students while =
begging (literally). Logos is a Christian school, but that does not keep =
students out by definition. It merely means that Logos has standards, it =
means that Logos is a business and the students are there to work. =
Students with a clear pattern of disobedience and rebellion against =
teachers and people in authority are kept out of Logos because if their =
parents can't train them, it is not worth Logos' effort to try, and =
unfair to those students who are working hard and do not want to be =
distracted. I know, I have experienced Logos as well as a publically =
funded school in Washington. The main requirement for entering Logos is =
the willingness to abide by Logos standards of excellence, ! quality, =
and honesty. Which are things MHS would do well to imitate.
sincerely,
Joshua Nieuwsma
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joshua, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I appreciate your reply to me. I am =
glad you are=20
proud of your accomplishments and your school. I mean this. My daughter =
attended=20
Logos for several years and I agree with you that her education was =
fine, except=20
for (and I am not making this up) her and my concerns about how slavery =
was=20
presented and my concerns about the "us against" them mentality=20
typified by the many "heathen" comments used when talking =
about=20
those outside the school. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In reading your first post directed at =
me, I=20
thought, here is a good person who is standing up for his school. =
Great. In=20
reading your second post, however, I would guess that you =
have=20
led a sheltered and privileged life. I excuse your arrogance =
because you=20
are young, but I would not excuse your mentor who taught=20
to you the "government" school idea, along with the me, =
me,=20
Christian me attitude.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Unlike you, and unlike the other elite =
students at=20
Logos School, there are kids in the public school system that have =
parents=20
who don't love them and can't or won't care for them. There are kids who =
come to=20
school partially clothed. There are kids who come to school so poorly =
taken care=20
of that the staff (of the nasty government school) donate clothing to =
them or=20
wash their clothes, or feed them, or even give them shoes. There =
are abused=20
kids. There are kids from broken, non-functional families. There are =
kids with=20
real disabilities that go way beyond "needed help walking." There are =
kids with=20
severe mental disabilities, severe physical disabilities, attention =
deficit=20
problems, and kids who will never meet the Logos standards, even if they =
tried=20
their best every day of their lives. By the way, I have =
personal knowledge=20
of a student that didn't make it at Logos, not because she didn't =
try but=20
because she just wasn't quite as quick as the rest. She was asked to =
leave. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You said, "I'd like mine (tax money) =
back...it=20
didn't benefit me in any way..." Personally, I would double my taxes if =
it would=20
keep kids from becoming throw-aways. You know what a throw away is don't =
you? It=20
is the kind of person who ends up in prison, then costs everybody more =
in the=20
end. And what a waste of a human being.You seem to want to live in your =
own=20
little world and ignore those who are the least able to fend for =
themselves.=20
Your total disregard for the less privileged among us seems frankly =
mean-hearted=20
to me. Shame on you.<BR><BR>You say Logos is a Christian school. Well, I =
ask=20
you, who sounds more Christian, the public school employees who feed =
those who=20
are not fed and clothe those who are not clothed or you? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>About those programs you want to cut, =
you may not=20
need or want those programs at Logos (though I suspect some jealousy) =
but they=20
are very important for the well being of some students. For some,=20
these programs are the only thing keeping them in school. And off =
the=20
streets. And out of jail. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I do not blame you for your behavior. I =
blame your=20
mentor. I bet I can guess who that is.That is why I suggested that Logos =
question its affiliation with anyone who preaches such divisive, =
selfish, and=20
unchristian attitudes. Thank you for helping prove my =
point.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Sincerely, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Jim Meyer</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A href=3D"mailto:joshuahendrik@yahoo.com" =
title=3Djoshuahendrik@yahoo.com>Joshua=20
Nieuwsma</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:m1e2y3e4@moscow.com"=20
title=3Dm1e2y3e4@moscow.com>Jim Meyer</A> ; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com>vision</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 11, =
2003 9:37=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] =
Devisiveness=20
Must Stop</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dear Mr. Meyer,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Please be so kind as to get facts right before making charges. I =
refer=20
specifically to these sentence:<EM> To be blunt, until Logos accepts=20
<STRONG>all students</STRONG>, including those with serious mental, =
physical,=20
and behavioral handicaps, then <STRONG>those vocal group members have=20
absolutely nothing to say worth hearing about the cost of public=20
education</STRONG>. </EM>Mr. Meyers, while I attended Logos I recall =
there=20
being a "disadvantaged" child that attended school there for at least =
a year.=20
He was definitely handicapped (needed help walking for one thing). If =
you=20
doubt the veracity of this eye-witness account in the same spirit that =
you=20
accuse others of having all the appearance of evil whether they are =
truly good=20
or not, I encourage you to contact the school superintendent, Mr. Tom=20
Garfield. But as to the idea that group members aren't allowed to =
comment=20
on the cost of public education if they don't provide complete =
services, that=20
is ridiculous anyhow. I! s someone that doesn't drive a car unable to =
comment=20
on road safety? You might as well go live in the time of Krushchev or=20
something if you want to place that sort of censureship upon a =
person's right=20
to comment critically about an institution that he pays for.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As a Logos graduate, I am naturally defensive of attacks upon =
that most=20
excellent institution, which regularly performs far above the quality =
of the=20
local government school and at a cost much lower. =
example: Average ACT=20
scores. The 2003 graduating class of MHS was 191 =
students. 82% of=20
these took the ACT. <STRONG>Their collective score was =
23.2</STRONG> .=20
From any reasonable perspective (I.E. assuming that the class wasn't a =
bunch=20
of nit-wits, easy to assume given the number of students) this class =
is not at=20
all prepared for college. My graduating class of 2002 =
graduating=20
class had 21 students. Almost everyone took the ACT (I don't know =
the=20
exact number). <STRONG>Our collective score was =
28.9</STRONG>. Lest it be=20
thought that the class was a bunch of brains, the class before mine =
was about=20
28 ACT. <STRONG>The average ACT score of graduates of MHS is =
23.2, with=20
82% of the class taking it.</STRONG> With that sort of appalli! =
ng=20
record, I think Logos associates and alumni have alot to say about =
district=20
schools. If anything, the taxpayer-supported school ought to be asking =
for=20
advice to improve their education. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>How about the National Merit Finalist statistics? I don't believe =
a logos=20
class (always averaging around 20 students) has ever failed to produce =
at=20
least 1 NMF. That's an average of about 5% per year. In 2003 =
MHS,=20
out of 191 students, produced 1 national merit finalist. Hmmm... =
although more=20
data is needed, one would think that such an <EM>excellent</EM> =
educational=20
system (which needs more money to be more excellent) would have =
produced at=20
least 9 national merit finalists, if their classes are =
comparable to=20
Logos'. But alas, they only produced 1 as well.</DIV>
<P>My sources: <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.homefair.com/homefair/usr/nsrs/sorder.html?NETSCAPE_LI=
VEWIRE.src=3Dyahoo&state=3DID&countyid=3D29">http://www.homefair.=
com/homefair/usr/nsrs/sorder.html?NETSCAPE_LIVEWIRE.src=3Dyahoo&state=
=3DID&countyid=3D29</A> to=20
enter in your information and get a free report of the public school =
district.=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.homefair.com/homefair/servlet/ActionServlet?pid=3D187&=
amp;cid=3Dyahoo&art=3DschoolFAQ">http://www.homefair.com/homefair/ser=
vlet/ActionServlet?pid=3D187&cid=3Dyahoo&art=3DschoolFAQ</A> =
;tells=20
you their method of receiving and reporting information.</P>
<DIV>Logos School has approximately a 20:1 student teacher ratio. MHS =
has a=20
13:1 student teacher ratio. Logos produces high quality students that =
rarely=20
fail to enter the university of their choice (i.e. Princeton,=20
Washington&Lee, Georgia Tech, etc.) and average around 28 on the =
ACT=20
(about 80% of total possible score). MHS produces students that =
score a=20
64% of total score on the ACT or a measly 23.2. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mr. Meyer, you said: <EM>They whine about taxes but offer no =
productive=20
solutions. </EM>Logos is clearly a productive solution to the problem =
of good=20
education in the Moscow community. And it is run despite the taxes =
that each=20
parent pays for another school which is trashing its students while =
begging=20
(literally). Logos is a Christian school, but that does not keep =
students out=20
by definition. It merely means that Logos has standards, it means that =
Logos=20
is a business and the students are there to work. Students with a =
clear=20
pattern of disobedience and rebellion against teachers and people in =
authority=20
are kept out of Logos because if their parents can't train them, it is =
not=20
worth Logos' effort to try, and unfair to those students who are =
working hard=20
and do not want to be distracted. I know, I have experienced Logos as =
well as=20
a publically funded school in Washington. The main requirement for =
entering=20
Logos is the willingness to abide by Logos standards of excellence, ! =
quality,=20
and honesty. Which are things MHS would do well to =
imitate.<BR></DIV>
<DIV>sincerely,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Joshua Nieuwsma</DIV>
<P>
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href=3D"http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree">Protect=20
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