[Vision2020] MSD Student-to-Teacher ratio
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Thu, 15 May 2003 17:17:29 -0700
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<P>Don,</P>
<P>You are very correct on that one. UI's Student/Teacher ratio is like 10:1. I have only every had one class out of like 25 that had that small of a class. But, I also know that many certified teachers are not teaching, they are only doing research. I also know that many Masters classes are classified as classes even though they never really meet as a "class".</P></DIV>
<P>So you have a Professor that is teaching 3 classes, one with 100 students, and two with 2 students each, you have an average of 34 students per class. They also like to play number games with the class sizes too. I was in a section in a Communications class with only 50 seats. When I got to class I found over 100 people in the class, why? Because they combined the two sections of the course together so one teacher could teach the class. On paper it is only 50 people, but in reality, it is many more students. This is done all the time by all colleges and Universities to sound better on paper and mix the numbers.</P>
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<P>"Statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics" <BR></P>
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<P>Donovan Arnold<BR></P>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: Don Kaag <DKAAG@TURBONET.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: Vision 2020 <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MSD Student-to-Teacher ratio
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:52:34 -0700
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<DIV></DIV>>Dale:
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<DIV></DIV>>You are over-simplifying.
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<DIV></DIV>>You have to know how statistics are arrived at in order to use them
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<DIV></DIV>>to realistically portray class size and teacher load.
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<DIV></DIV>>What the District reports to the State is a simple average of total
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<DIV></DIV>>number of certified teachers and total number of students in the
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<DIV></DIV>>district. It fails to take into account a number of factors, such
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<DIV></DIV>>as:
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<DIV></DIV>>1. Certified teachers employed by the District in jobs other than
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<DIV></DIV>>student-contact jobs.
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<DIV></DIV>>2. Teachers teaching such non-academic subjects as Band and Chorus,
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<DIV></DIV>>which Moscow patrons have overwhelmingly supported.
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<DIV></DIV>>3. Both gifted and talented and special education teachers whose
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<DIV></DIV>>student loads per class period must be much smaller than the average
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<DIV></DIV>>class in order to give more individual attention to students.
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<DIV></DIV>>4. Scheduling problems which overload teachers in one class period
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<DIV></DIV>>and under-load them in others, especially at the junior high and
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<DIV></DIV>>high school.
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<DIV></DIV>>As an example, I have one U.S. History section of 19 students, and
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<DIV></DIV>>one of 26, which fills all of the desks in my classroom. I have
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<DIV></DIV>>worked with the counselors and the administration at the high school
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<DIV></DIV>>to get it fixed, but it is a complicated scheduling dance involving
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<DIV></DIV>>required courses, electives, and when I and the other teacher
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<DIV></DIV>>teaching U.S. History have our prep periods. Last year this problem
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<DIV></DIV>>was solved by hiring a part-time teacher to teach several periods of
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<DIV></DIV>>U.S. History. With downsizing, that job went away, and we lost
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<DIV></DIV>>flexibility.
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<DIV></DIV>>It isn't as easy as it appears, and very few teachers in this
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<DIV></DIV>>district are teaching 15.22 students a day (in the case of the
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<DIV></DIV>>elementary schools...) or per period (at the junior high and the
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<DIV></DIV>>high school).
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<DIV></DIV>>Regards,
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<DIV></DIV>>Don Kaag
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<DIV></DIV>>On Thursday, May 15, 2003, at 06:02 AM, Dale Courtney wrote:
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<DIV></DIV>>>Visionaries,
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<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>>Someone on this list once commented to me that in spite of the
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<DIV></DIV>>>declining MSD student numbers (15% in 7 years), we should keep the
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<DIV></DIV>>>number of teachers constant so that we can have the
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<DIV></DIV>>>appropriate-sized classroom ratios.
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<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>>I pulled the string on that recommendation. Here's the results that
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<DIV></DIV>>>MSD reported to the State of Idaho's annual statistical report for
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<DIV></DIV>>>2002-2003:
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<DIV></DIV>>>• MSD's student-to-teacher ratio is 15.22
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<DIV></DIV>>>• Of the 25 school districts with >2,500 students, only one
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<DIV></DIV>>>(Blaine County) had a smaller ratio.
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<DIV></DIV>>>• Note: MSD reported 2,575 students in this report. They will fall
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<DIV></DIV>>>to a third-tier school (<2,500) at the end of this year.
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<DIV></DIV>>>• Of the 54 school districts with >1,000 students, only one other
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<DIV></DIV>>>school district (Grangeville) had a smaller ratio (15.19).
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<DIV></DIV>>>What does this mean? It means that MSD already had the 3rd smallest
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<DIV></DIV>>>student-to-teacher ratio in the state.
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<DIV></DIV>>>FWIW, the state averages for large districts was 18.84,
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<DIV></DIV>>>medium-sized districts was 18.04, and small districts was 17.88.
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<DIV></DIV>>>Finally, with the student population at MSD falling at a rate of 3%
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<DIV></DIV>>>per year, we'll have achieved the lowest ratio in the state by the
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<DIV></DIV>>>end of next year.
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<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>>Time to ask for more levy money to right-size those classrooms!
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<DIV></DIV>>>Best,
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<DIV></DIV>>>Dale Courtney
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<DIV></DIV>>>Moscow, Idaho
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