[Vision2020] Oath for gun ownership/self-government
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Thu, 15 May 2003 14:08:33 -0700
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<P>Don,</P>
<P>That is very interesting. I didn't know that stuff. Except, I did know that hand guns made up for about 95% of homicide shootings. Perhaps we should focus more on the stopping of the illegal trafficing and sale of guns to people that should not have them then anything else. Thanks!</P>
<P>Donovan Arnold<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Don Kaag <DKAAG@TURBONET.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>To: Vision 2020 <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Oath for gun ownership/self-government
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 06:35:58 -0700
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Donovan:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>There are very few people agitating for "automatic machine guns" to
<DIV></DIV>>be generally available. The current controversy is over
<DIV></DIV>>semi-automatic rifles with large-capacity magazines. The ones in
<DIV></DIV>>question are so-called "assault rifles". The amusing fact is that
<DIV></DIV>>the same manufacturers make exactly the same barreled actions in
<DIV></DIV>>"sport models", and those are legal... they just have a different
<DIV></DIV>>stock, and a smaller,hunting-legal, magazine.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>It is even legal to own an automatic (Class III) weapon in the US,
<DIV></DIV>>but it requires a special permit, and FBI registration. There are
<DIV></DIV>>serious collectors of militaria around the country who own them
<DIV></DIV>>legally. Since the law was put in place in 1936, only one
<DIV></DIV>>legally-registered automatic weapon has ever been used in the
<DIV></DIV>>commission of a crime, and that one was registered to a law officer
<DIV></DIV>>who would have had access to an automatic weapon anyway. This, of
<DIV></DIV>>course, doesn't regulate the Uzi's, MAC 10's. H&K MP-5's, and other
<DIV></DIV>>cool designer submachine guns which are smuggled into the country
<DIV></DIV>>along the drug pipelines and used as status symbols by your friendly
<DIV></DIV>>local big-city drug lord. But they are already illegal as hell.
<DIV></DIV>>Military collectors or ordinary citizens wanting to defend their
<DIV></DIV>>families and homes are not the problem.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>As for "armor piercing" bullets, it is a little-known fact that
<DIV></DIV>>virtually any rifle slug is an "armor piercing" bullet. The typical
<DIV></DIV>>military or police protective vest isn't designed to stop rifle or
<DIV></DIV>>machine gun rounds---you could make one, but it would be impossible
<DIV></DIV>>to function in it. Vests are designed to stop small to medium
<DIV></DIV>>caliber pistol bullets and shotgun rounds, and in the case of
<DIV></DIV>>military vests, fragments from grenades, mortars, etc.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Large capacity magazines (more than 10 rounds) are now illegal to
<DIV></DIV>>manufacture or import into the US, but not to sell. They are still
<DIV></DIV>>available for sale, from older stocks, and there are millions,
<DIV></DIV>>perhaps hundreds of millions of them already owned in this country.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>The interesting thing about people who want to continue, and
<DIV></DIV>>increase, bans on semi-auto rifles and large capacity magazines in
<DIV></DIV>>the US is that while they may look threatening to civilians and
<DIV></DIV>>non-gun folks, such weapons and magazines are used in the commission
<DIV></DIV>>of less than one-half of one percent of the gun-related crimes in
<DIV></DIV>>America. So it is really a non-problem. People do buy and own them
<DIV></DIV>>for either target shooting and/or home defense.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Regards,
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Don Kaag
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>On Wednesday, May 14, 2003, at 10:13 PM, Donovan Arnold wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>Speaking of private gun ownership,
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>I am all for private ownership in places like Idaho, Montana,
<DIV></DIV>>>Alaska, and other places that are like two hours from the nearest
<DIV></DIV>>>law enforcement and there are plenty of places to hunt. I don't see
<DIV></DIV>>>how right-wing activists can preach, let alone sleep at night, that
<DIV></DIV>>>people living in the city have the right to own an automatic
<DIV></DIV>>>machine gun with armor piercing bullets. The only purpose for this
<DIV></DIV>>>weapon is murder. Small hand guns, and rifles have some legitimate
<DIV></DIV>>>uses in many areas of the country.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>There are WAY to many stupid people out there that have guns that
<DIV></DIV>>>should not. They leave them out for their children to play with.
<DIV></DIV>>>They point them at people. They shoot their friends and hunting
<DIV></DIV>>>partners. They do not protect access to their guns and ammunition
<DIV></DIV>>>from others to use in crimes. Individuals should only be allowed to
<DIV></DIV>>>own a gun if they meet the following conditions. ( read this with a
<DIV></DIV>>>sense of humor and a pinch of salt)
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>a) They have an IQ of 90 or better
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>b) Take lessons and pass a test on how to properly use and store a
<DIV></DIV>>>gun
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>c) Have a minimum of a High School Diploma
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>d) Physically be able to aim and hit a target
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>e) Pass a common sense test.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>f) Sign the following agreement.
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>I ________________ Do solemnly swear to my God, my state, and my
<DIV></DIV>>>nation, that I will not use this gun as a toy. I will not point it
<DIV></DIV>>>at people. I will not use it commit a crime. I will not refer to it
<DIV></DIV>>>as a threat against another person(s)'s life. I will store it in a
<DIV></DIV>>>location where my children, my children's friends, or other
<DIV></DIV>>>visitors to my home can not access the gun or ammunition without my
<DIV></DIV>>>direct knowledge and permission. I will not clean it loaded, or
<DIV></DIV>>>even unloaded, in front of others. I will not discharge the weapon
<DIV></DIV>>>in a populated area of more then 10 other people with the exception
<DIV></DIV>>>of a shooting range or other specified area. While hunting I will
<DIV></DIV>>>not shoot it at any moving or living creature until I am 100% sure
<DIV></DIV>>>it is not another hunter or other human walking through the woods.
<DIV></DIV>>>I will use common sense in all my uses of this weapon, I fully
<DIV></DIV>>>understand it can kill, even by accident. I understand that I will
<DIV></DIV>>>not face legal prosecution for using it as a defense agai! nst my
<DIV></DIV>>>property, life, or the life of my family or neighbors. I fully
<DIV></DIV>>>understand that violation of this oath is contrary to the very
<DIV></DIV>>>principle of freedom and a direct violation of the freedoms and
<DIV></DIV>>>liberties of other free citizens of the United States of America. I
<DIV></DIV>>>am also intelligent enough to know that this weapon is not capable
<DIV></DIV>>>of defeating or defending against an even partial attack from the
<DIV></DIV>>>United States Military which is the most powerful on the planet. If
<DIV></DIV>>>I am found guilty of violating this oath then I shall be forced to
<DIV></DIV>>>sit on this gun in such a manner as to be able to pull the trigger,
<DIV></DIV>>>and then do so. : )
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>Donovan Arnold
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> >From: Joshua Nieuwsma
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> >To: vision
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] self-govenment
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> >Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:30:22 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> >good point. I agree. But any government as big as the US that
<DIV></DIV>>>would use its full military force would be condemned world-over.
<DIV></DIV>>>
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<DIV></DIV>>> >-joshua nieuwsma
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<DIV></DIV>>> >
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<DIV></DIV>>> >Ron Force wrote:
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<DIV></DIV>>> >The concept of an armed citizenry rolling back the army of a
<DIV></DIV>>>tyrannical government has been a favorite fantasy of the Rambos of
<DIV></DIV>>>the right-- and to be perfectly honest, the loonies of the Left in
<DIV></DIV>>>the 70's. The recent festivities in Iraq should give such true
<DIV></DIV>>>believers pause. Let's face it, unless you have B-52s and JDAMS,
<DIV></DIV>>>the government has you way outgunned. The Marines made short work
<DIV></DIV>>>of the fedayeen, and they had mortars and quad machine guns,
<DIV></DIV>>>neither of which are likely to be on the open market soon.
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