[Vision2020] Douglas Wilson's Rationale:

Art Deco deco@moscow.com
Mon, 12 May 2003 12:34:38 -0700


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Re: Eric of Redhawk

There is a difference between imposing and persuading.  There is a =
difference between persuading with what the persuader believes is an =
honest argument and persuading by sand bagging, ignoring the real issue =
at had by diversion, cleverly concealing the nature of one's beliefs, =
and/or flat out lying about one's true beliefs and using obliviously =
spurious arguments to support them with the hope that the =
unsophisticated will be fooled.
  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Eric Engerbretson=20
  To: Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 8:58 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Douglas Wilson's Rationale:


  That sounds great, W., but the problem is=96 EVERYBODY thinks they are =
"keeping
  their beliefs reality based and reviewing and testing them =
frequently". So, you may=20
  think your beliefs are better than those of others because you "test =
them frequently" but, obviously, testing standards vary.

  You say people shouldn't impose their beliefs on others, yet you hope =
to change the world with that very method. The fact is, the world will =
not change at all until some people's beliefs are "imposed" on others =
and those others see that those beliefs make good sense and ultimately =
show themselves to be true.=20

  So, puhleez, stop with the imposing bans on imposing. The only way to =
stop imposing
  your beliefs on others would be to never write another letter to this =
list. Impose away, but
  call it what it is. And quit calling people presumptuous by being =
presumptuous.


  Eric Engerbretson



  On Sunday, May 11, 2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Art Deco wrote:


    Eric of Redhawk Crossing,
    =20
    I try to keep my beliefs reality based and review and test them =
frequently.  In the short run some of my ideas may cause people like =
yourself some discommoding moments.  In the long run, I hope the world =
will be better.
    =20
    W.






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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Re: Eric of =
Redhawk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>There is a difference between =
imposing and=20
persuading.&nbsp; There is a difference between persuading with what the =

persuader believes is an honest argument and persuading by sand bagging, =

ignoring the real issue at had by diversion, cleverly concealing the =
nature of=20
one's beliefs, and/or flat out lying about one's true beliefs and using=20
obliviously spurious arguments to support them with the hope that the=20
unsophisticated will be fooled.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Deric@eric-e.com href=3D"mailto:eric@eric-e.com">Eric =
Engerbretson</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May =
11, 2003=20
  8:58 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] =
Douglas=20
  Wilson's Rationale:</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>That sounds great, W., but the problem is=96 EVERYBODY =
thinks=20
  they are "keeping<BR>their beliefs reality based and reviewing and =
testing=20
  them frequently". So, you may <BR>think your beliefs are better than =
those of=20
  others because you "test them frequently" but, obviously, testing =
standards=20
  vary.<BR><BR>You say people shouldn't impose their beliefs on others, =
yet you=20
  hope to change the world with that very method. The fact is, the world =
will=20
  not change at all until some people's beliefs are "imposed" on others =
and=20
  those others see that those beliefs make good sense and ultimately =
show=20
  themselves to be true. <BR><BR>So, puhleez, stop with the imposing =
bans on=20
  imposing. The only way to stop imposing<BR>your beliefs on others =
would be to=20
  never write another letter to this list. Impose away, but<BR>call it =
what it=20
  is. And quit calling people presumptuous by being=20
  presumptuous.<BR><BR><BR>Eric Engerbretson<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Sunday, =
May 11,=20
  2003, at 20:24 US/Pacific, Art Deco wrote:<BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE><?fontfamily><?param Arial Narrow><?smaller><?smaller>Eric =
of=20
    Redhawk =
Crossing,<?/smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR>&nbsp;<BR><?fontfamily><=
?param Arial Narrow><?smaller><?smaller>I&nbsp;try=20
    to keep my beliefs reality based and review and test them =
frequently.&nbsp;=20
    In the short run some of my ideas may cause people like yourself =
some=20
    discommoding moments.&nbsp; In the long run, I hope the world will =
be=20
better.<?/smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR>&nbsp;<BR><?fontfamily><?p=
aram Arial =
Narrow><?smaller><?smaller>W.<?/smaller><?/smaller><?/fontfamily><BR><BR>=
</BLOCKQUOTE><B><?fontfamily><?param Arial><?color><?param =
4C4C,4C4C,4C4C><BR><BR><?/color><?/fontfamily></B><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY=
></HTML>

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