[Vision2020] RE: [Vision2020] Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Public
Schools 15-year Trends
Dale Courtney
dale@courtneys.us
Sun, 11 May 2003 16:29:29 -0700
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Sunil,
=20
The term "liberal" is, unfortunately, a very generic term; and it leads =
to
the unproductive "left-right" game in discussions.=20
=20
There are really two dimensions to the self-determination issue: one is
economic and the other is personal.=20
<http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html> Nolan Chart
=20
When you break this out (see the "Nolan" chart below), you have 5 =
categories
of people:=20
* "Left" Liberal
* "Right" Conservative
* Authoritarian
* Libertarian
* Centrist
The dimensions here are economic self-determination and personal
self-determination.=20
=20
In the case of government schools, we have removed the right of parents =
to
choose where their children go to school and what kind of education they
get; and because we've taxed ourselves into the hole for government
education (MSD spends over $8,000 per year per child), we've removed the
economic ability of most parents to send their children to a good =
school.
So, we've effectively created a system where the wealthy get a great
education and the rest of us get an inferior one. We've essentially =
adopted
an authoritarian view towards education.
=20
Bottom line: my term "liberal" is used in the standard sense of someone
saying they want to allow for personal self-determination, but they want =
to
tax everyone else so that they can control how self-determined others =
may
be.
=20
So, you tell me how someone who believes in personal and economic
self-determination can support a government educational system?
Consistently, they cannot; so they have backed off on both of these
principles.=20
=20
Best,
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: Sunil Ramalingam [mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com]=20
Sent: Thursday, 08 May, 2003 11:58
To: dale@courtneys.us; vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: [Vision2020] Idaho Public Schools 15-year
Trends
Dale,=20
Since you always generalize about 'liberals' and their views in these
discussions about public education, is it your position that only =
liberals
support public education? Or do you agree that there are people who =
would
describe themselves as conservative who also support public schools?=20
Sunil
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>Sunil,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>The=20
term "liberal" is, unfortunately, a very generic term; and it leads =
to the=20
unproductive "left-right" game in discussions. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>There=20
are really two dimensions to the self-determination issue: one is =
economic and=20
the other is personal. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><A =
href=3D"http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html"=20
target=3D_new><IMG alt=3D"Nolan Chart" hspace=3D0=20
src=3D"http://courtneys.us/MSD/images/nolan.gif" align=3Dbaseline=20
border=3D0></A></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>When=20
you break this out (see the "Nolan" chart below), you have 5 categories =
of=20
people: </FONT></SPAN></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<UL>
<LI><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000=20
size=3D2>"Left" Liberal</FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000=20
size=3D2>"Right" Conservative</FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000=20
size=3D2>Authoritarian</FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000=20
size=3D2>Libertarian</FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000=20
size=3D2>Centrist</FONT></SPAN></LI></UL>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>The=20
dimensions here are <U>economic</U> self-determination and =
<U>personal</U>=20
self-determination. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>In the=20
case of government schools, we have removed the right of parents to =
choose where=20
their children go to school and what kind of education they get;=20
a</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000=20
size=3D2>nd because we've taxed ourselves into the hole for government =
education=20
(MSD spends over $8,000 per year per child), we've removed the economic =
ability=20
of most parents to send their children to a good school. So, we've =
effectively=20
created a system where the wealthy get a great education and the rest of =
us get=20
an inferior one. We've essentially adopted an authoritarian view towards =
education.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>Bottom=20
line: my term "liberal" is used in the standard sense of someone =
saying=20
they want to allow for personal self-determination, but they want to tax =
everyone else so that they can control how self-determined others =
may=20
be.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D461520123-11052003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>So,=20
you tell me how someone who believes in personal and economic =
self-determination=20
can support a government educational system? Consistently, they cannot; =
so they=20
have backed off on both of these principles. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial>Best,</FONT><BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Vladimir Script"=20
size=3D5>Dale</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
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solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
Sunil Ramalingam=20
[mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, 08 =
May, 2003=20
11:58<BR><B>To:</B> dale@courtneys.us;=20
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Re: =
[Vision2020]=20
=
Idaho Public Schools 15-year Trends<BR><BR></FONT></D=
IV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P>Dale, </P>
<P>Since you always generalize about 'liberals' and their views in =
these=20
discussions about public education, is it your position that only =
liberals=20
support public education? Or do you agree that there are people =
who=20
would describe themselves as conservative who also support public=20
schools? </P>
<P>Sunil</P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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