[Vision2020] Logos School
Art Deco
deco@moscow.com
Sun, 11 May 2003 08:18:59 -0700
Re: Who are the bad guys?
It seems true in most conflicts there are persons on both sides that have
what most would describe as undesirable traits. That certainly is true of
the issues that loomed large at the time of the civil war.
That war is over.
The difference between then and now is that many from both the south and
north have learned from mistakes made. Apparently others have not. It is
called "living in the past."
We need to judge historical figures on the basis of the historical cultural
milieu, their traits, and their lasting contribution to humankind. I'm
afraid the confederates revered by the Christ Church cult such Robert E Lee
do not fare well under this standard especially considering some of Lee's
private conduct. Many heroes have chinks in their armor and many historical
figures have had huge ones in the context of today's perspective. However,
when we judge on balance of their times and contributions some are still
heroes while others are not.
But the core of the current debate is not about historical times and heroes,
it is about what values are more valid now given advancements in human
knowledge and experience.
I submit the values of Robert E Lee and confederates are not only limiting,
anti-humanity, superstition based but at odds with the 150 years of human
experience and knowledge quest that have elapsed. Surprising to many of the
cult's leaders, the ability to function well in society and make significant
contributions to humankind is not a function of gender, race, religious
preference, or sexual orientation.
With regard to the cult, again what comes to mind is the graffiti found on a
segregated church: Hate lives here, not Jesus.
Wayne Fox
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Harrell" <johnbharrell@yahoo.com>
To: <london@moscow.com>; "Vision2020" <msolomon@turbonet.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2003 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Logos School
> Bill,
>
> History can be ugly. There are many blotches that people would rather
> ignore and wish that they would go away. One of todays biggest
misconceptions
> about history is the Norths complicity with slavery. But regardless of
> our desire to hide our head in the sand and ignore the blotches such that
> we can continue to idolize and worship the North, the North wasn't much
> better than the South.
>
> So, do you honor Abraham Lincoln, Ulysses S. Grant, and the North in
general?
> Because most northerners did not view the African-American as equals. How
> about todays Congressman? Some northern Congressman even today do not view
> the African-American as equal. So, it was not just the South, but the
North
> also. To claim honor with the North and Abraham Lincoln is to believe in
> racism. Is that what you believe? Are you a racist Bill?
>
> For example,
>
> 1) Abraham Lincoln (R) was a "white separatist":
>
> "What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black
races."
> - Speech at Springfield, Ill, July 17, 1858
>
> 2) Abraham Lincoln (R) believed "the negro" to be less than equal:
>
> "I have said that I do not understand the Declaration to mean that all men
were
> created equal in all respects. They are not our equal in color;"
> - Speech at Springfield, Ill, July 17, 1858
>
> 3) Abraham Lincoln (R), again the "white separatist", forbids
intermarrying,
> and does not want "equality" for "negroes":
>
> "I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing
about in
> any way the social and political equality of the white and black
races--that I am
> not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes,
nor of
> qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I
will say
> in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white
and
> black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living
together on
> terms of social and political equality."
> - Speech at Cincinnati, Ohio, September 17, 1859
>
> 4) Abraham Lincoln (R), wasn't starting a war over slavery, many times he
said
> things similar to the following:
>
> "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not
either to
> save or destroy slavery..."
> - Statement made in 1862, to Horace Greeley
>
> 5) Ulysses S. Grant was a slave owner
>
> 6) Sen. Robert R. Byrd (D), current Senator for W. VA, was a KKK member
> The Democrats recently named a building after him; see what Byrd had to
> say:
>
> "[he would] never submit to fight beneath that banner [the American flag]
> with a Negro by my side. Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old
> Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved
> land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest
> specimen from the wilds."
>
> 7)..and Byrd is still allowed to represent this country? especially the
> democrats?, how about this list of federal projects named after Byrd, not
> bad for a democrat former KKK member:
>
> "Some items funded by taxpayers - but still somehow named after
> "Robert C. Byrd" - are: The Robert C. Byrd Highway; the Robert C. Byrd
> Locks and Dam; the Robert C. Byrd Institute; the Robert C. Byrd Life
> Long Learning Center; the Robert C. Byrd Honors Scholarship Program;
> the Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope; the Robert C. Byrd Institute
> for Advanced Flexible Manufacturing; the Robert C. Byrd Federal
> Courthouse; the Robert C. Byrd Health Sciences Center; the Robert C.
> Byrd Academic and Technology Center; the Robert C. Byrd United
> Technical Center; the Robert C. Byrd Federal Building; the Robert C. Byrd
> Drive; the Robert C. Byrd Hilltop Office Complex; the Robert C. Byrd
> Library; the Robert C. Byrd Learning Resource Center; the Robert C.
> Byrd Rural Health Center......
>
> 8) Sen. Robert R. Byrd (D), current Senator for W. VA, former KKK member,
> uses N* word; he used the phrase in an interview on "Fox News Sunday,"
> March 2, 2003.
>
> Many, many, more exist regarding the North's views of African-Americans.
> But I stop here. The point is: neither the North nor the South have clean
> hands. To claim honor with the North by claiming the Norths' virtue
regarding
> racism does not do honor to history.
>
> Cheers!
> John Harrell
>
> --- Bill London <london@moscow.com> wrote:
> > I could take the administration of the Logos School much more seriously
> > if they were more straightforward in their public pronouncements.
> > For example, the editorial Friday in the Daily News by the Logos
> > principal.
> > That "editorial" did not respond to, or refer to, the published
> > contraversies surrounding that school, like their denial of leadership
> > opportunities to women or their honoring of the slave-holding American
> > Confederacy.
> > Instead, we were treated to a piece of pure fluff, a pat-on-the-back
> > kind of feature that would have been more appropriately an
> > advertisement.
> > BL
> >
> >
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