[Vision2020] MSD financial condition
Tom Hansen
thansen@moscow.com
Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:48:52 -0800
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MessageMr. Courtney -
Your analysis is ill-founded.
At the K-12 level, you take into consideration every dollar expended by the
school district.
At the college level, you only consider that amount of tuition paid by the
student.
To "level the playing field" you should either:
1) At the K-12 level - Limit your consideration to the actual amount paid
by each family (per year) toward their child's education, which I am certain
falls considerably short of the $8,055/year quote, or
2) At the college level - Further include funds provided by the state and
generated by the university that are also expended in developing and
maintaining the university. Applying your mathematical "formula", I am
certain that the cost exceeds $3,000 per student per year.
Utilities alone cost the university in excess of $3 million per year.
If you are interested in more precise figures, I can provide these (via this
listserve) after I research it a bit further.
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
Behalf Of Dale Courtney
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:30 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] MSD financial condition
Mike Curley took the time to write and make some very helpful suggestions
for my search into the current MSD budget woes.
I took the time to go to MSD headquarters and get the financial data for
last year (2001-2002). FYI, those expenditures were $19,050,079
I also gathered their enrollment data
(http://www.sd281.k12.id.us/GeneralInformation/files/Enrollment.pdf) There
were 2,365 students in 2001-2002.
If you do the math, the total loaded (fully burdened) costs are $8,055 per
student per year.
I was really amazed by this number! I happen to pay $1,500 for my youngest
to attend a private school (which may not be named) in Moscow.
I was also amazed that out of state tuition at UI is $3,000/year; and
instate (for 2001-2002) was $1,238
(http://www.webs.uidaho.edu/ipb/Excel_files/STD_FEE.xls)
Can someone please tell me why the elementary/junior high/high school fees
are nearly three times as much as for a bachelor's degree program?
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Mike Curley
Sent: Friday, 07 March, 2003 10:14
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] MSD financial condition
Mr. Courtney:
Just to correct a couple of facts before you share your thoughts about
the MSD budget:
1. The 2001 $1.1 M supplemental levy is also "indefinite" as were the
earlier levies.
2. Unless you have seen something that I haven't, there has been no
request for an increase to the levy (at least not yet).
3. Last year, teachers, administrators and all other staff members did
indeed have a pay increase--even in the face of the district having to ask
for a levy increase that did NOT include any announced "salary component;"
and even in the face of having to reduce staff and consolidate West Park and
Russell elementary schools into a single K- 6 program.
4. You asked the question: "... how you can have a decrease in
2.7%enrollment per year for 7 years (12.9% since 1996) and need to have a
bloating budget?" Possible answers to investigate:
a. bad management: failure to suck it up and do what needs to be done to
reduce staff where necessary and deal with the wrath of the union, and
parents, that is bound to follow.
b. cost of services increase. The 15% of the budget that gets spent on
curriculum (including books, worksheets, and other instructional materials),
technology (computers, software, servers, security equipment), and buildings
(vehicles to plow the snow, desk replacement, roof repairs, etc) suffers
from cost of living increases over 7 years. If a vehicle wears out today it
will cost more to replace it with a similar vehicle than it would have 7
years ago.
c. salary increases: note that salaries and benefits account for about
85% of the MSD budget. On a $17M budget, that's $14,620,000. That means of
course that every 1% of salary and benefit increase costs the district
$146,200. Check the salary and benefit increases per year over the 7 years
you cited, apply 85% to each year's full budget, and add the annual results
to figure out approximately how much increase is attributable to salary and
benefit increases over the period.
And, perhaps not "fact," it might nevertheless be useful to acknowledge
some other considerations. Related to point c. above: of course, if the
teacher/administrator/staff pool had declined over the period, the
salaries-to-total-budget ratio would have been smaller. In fairness, one
must note that since all the students are not in the same building and not
in the same grade, it is not possible to automatically reduce staff
proportionally with student population decreases. For example: let's say
there are 125 classes in session at any given time in MSD. If student
population declines in a perfectly random way (and I'm not suggesting it
does), we lose one student per classroom. What teacher do we "cut" next
year, and from which building. I am not suggesting that everything was done
over the last 7 years (or any time period for that matter) that could have
been to appropriately reduce staff. But it should be clear from the
illustration that the problem is not as simple as it might seem. What may
also be clear is that to cut staff and consolidate classes means larger
class sizes and more children being moved from their attendance area
elementary buildings each year, and more teachers being reassigned to new
buildings. Teachers and parents don't like any of those results, they pound
on the school board not to do that, and so the budget has to be larger to
accommodate those desires. So far a majority of the voting community has
supported that philosophy--or perhaps they created it. The school board is
left in the position of going to voters and saying in effect: "if you want
things to continue to run as they have in the past, we need more money." One
can reasonably argue that the board would have abdicated their
responsibilities had they cut staff in the face of voters continued funding
of exisiting staff size. It is not yet clear either: 1. whether increased
funding will be necessary to maintain current operations; and, 2. whether
voters will continue to increase the levy to meet those needs.
Mike Curley
_____________________________________________________ List services made
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D907363603-27032003>Mr. =
Courtney=20
-</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D907363603-27032003>Your analysis is=20
ill-founded. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D907363603-27032003>At =
the K-12=20
level, you take into consideration every dollar expended by the school=20
district.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D907363603-27032003>At =
the college=20
level, you only consider that amount of tuition paid by the=20
student.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D907363603-27032003>To =
"level the=20
playing field" you should either:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D907363603-27032003>1) At the=20
K-12 level - Limit your consideration to the actual amount paid by each =
family=20
(per year) toward their child's education, which I am certain falls =
considerably=20
short of the $8,055/year quote, or </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D907363603-27032003>2) At the=20
college level - Further include funds provided by the state and =
generated by the=20
university that are also expended in developing and maintaining the=20
university. Applying your mathematical "formula", I am certain =
that the=20
cost exceeds $3,000 per student per year.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D907363603-27032003>Utilities alone=20
cost the university in excess of $3 million per =
year.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D907363603-27032003>If =
you are=20
interested in more precise figures, I can provide these (via this =
listserve)=20
after I research it a bit further.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D907363603-27032003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN class=3D907363603-27032003>Tom =
Hansen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D907363603-27032003>Moscow,=20
Idaho</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
vision2020-admin@moscow.com=20
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Dale=20
Courtney<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 26, 2003 7:30 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] MSD =
financial=20
condition<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>Mike=20
Curley took the time to write and make some <U>very</U> helpful =
suggestions=20
for my search into the current MSD budget woes. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>I=20
took the time to go to MSD headquarters and get the financial data for =
last=20
year (2001-2002). FYI, those expenditures were =
$19,050,079</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial size=3D2>I=20
also gathered their enrollment data (<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.sd281.k12.id.us/GeneralInformation/files/Enrollment.pd=
f">http://www.sd281.k12.id.us/GeneralInformation/files/Enrollment.pdf</A>=
) There=20
were 2,365 students in 2001-2002. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2>If you do the math, the total <U>loaded</U> <SPAN=20
class=3D070541503-27032003>(fully burdened) </SPAN>costs are =
$8,055<SPAN=20
class=3D070541503-27032003> per </SPAN>student<SPAN =
class=3D070541503-27032003>=20
per year. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D070541503-27032003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003>I was <U>really</U> amazed =
by this=20
number! I happen to pay $1,500 for my youngest to attend a private =
school=20
(which may not be named) in Moscow. =
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D070541503-27032003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003>I was also amazed that out =
of state=20
tuition at UI is $3,000/year; and instate (for 2001-2002) was $1,238 =
(<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.webs.uidaho.edu/ipb/Excel_files/STD_FEE.xls">http://ww=
w.webs.uidaho.edu/ipb/Excel_files/STD_FEE.xls</A>)</SPAN></FONT></FONT></=
FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D070541503-27032003></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </DIV=
>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN class=3D070541503-27032003>Can someone <U>please</U> =
tell me why=20
the elementary/junior high/high school fees are nearly three times as =
much as=20
for a bachelor's degree program? =
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D817333623-26032003><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff><FONT=20
size=3D2><SPAN=20
=
class=3D070541503-27032003><BR>Dale</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></S=
PAN></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Mike Curley<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 07 March, 2003=20
10:14<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[Vision2020]=20
MSD financial condition<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>Mr. Courtney:<BR>Just to =
correct=20
a couple of facts before you share your thoughts about the MSD =
budget:<BR>1.=20
The 2001 $1.1 M supplemental levy is also "indefinite" as were the =
earlier=20
levies.<BR>2. Unless you have seen something that I haven't, there =
has been=20
no request for an increase to the levy (at least not yet).<BR>3. =
Last year,=20
teachers, administrators and all other staff members did indeed have =
a pay=20
increase--even in the face of the district having to ask for a levy =
increase=20
that did NOT include any announced "salary component;" and even in =
the face=20
of having to reduce staff and consolidate West Park and Russell =
elementary=20
schools into a single K- 6 program.<BR>4. You asked the question: =
"... how=20
you can have a decrease in 2.7%enrollment per year for 7 years =
(12.9% since=20
1996) and need to have a bloating budget?" Possible answers to=20
investigate:<BR>a. bad management: failure to suck it up and do what =
needs=20
to be done to reduce staff where necessary and deal with the wrath =
of the=20
union, and parents, that is bound to follow.<BR>b. cost of services=20
increase. The 15% of the budget that gets spent on curriculum =
(including=20
books, worksheets, and other instructional materials), technology=20
(computers, software, servers, security equipment), and buildings =
(vehicles=20
to plow the snow, desk replacement, roof repairs, etc) suffers from =
cost of=20
living increases over 7 years. If a vehicle wears out today it will =
cost=20
more to replace it with a similar vehicle than it would have 7 years =
ago.<BR>c. salary increases: note that salaries and benefits account =
for=20
about 85% of the MSD budget. On a $17M budget, that's $14,620,000. =
That=20
means of course that every 1% of salary and benefit increase costs =
the=20
district $146,200. Check the salary and benefit increases per year =
over the=20
7 years you cited, apply 85% to each year's full budget, and add the =
annual=20
results to figure out approximately how much increase is =
attributable to=20
salary and benefit increases over the period. <BR><BR>And, perhaps =
not=20
"fact," it might nevertheless be useful to acknowledge some other=20
considerations. Related to point c. above: of course, if the=20
teacher/administrator/staff pool had declined over the period, the=20
salaries-to-total-budget ratio would have been smaller. In fairness, =
one=20
must note that since all the students are not in the same building =
and not=20
in the same grade, it is not possible to automatically reduce staff=20
proportionally with student population decreases. For example: let's =
say=20
there are 125 classes in session at any given time in MSD. If =
student=20
population declines in a perfectly random way (and I'm not =
suggesting it=20
does), we lose one student per classroom. What teacher do we "cut" =
next=20
year, and from which building. I am not suggesting that everything =
was done=20
over the last 7 years (or any time period for that matter) that =
could have=20
been to appropriately reduce staff. But it should be clear from the=20
illustration that the problem is not as simple as it might seem. =
What may=20
also be clear is that to cut staff and consolidate classes means =
larger=20
class sizes and more children being moved from their attendance area =
elementary buildings each year, and more teachers being reassigned =
to new=20
buildings. Teachers and parents don't like any of those results, =
they pound=20
on the school board not to do that, and so the budget has to be =
larger to=20
accommodate those desires. So far a majority of the voting community =
has=20
supported that philosophy--or perhaps they created it. The school =
board is=20
left in the position of going to voters and saying in effect: "if =
you want=20
things to continue to run as they have in the past, we need more =
money." One=20
can reasonably argue that the board would have abdicated their=20
responsibilities had they cut staff in the face of voters continued =
funding=20
of exisiting staff size. It is not yet clear either: 1. whether =
increased=20
funding will be necessary to maintain current operations; and, 2. =
whether=20
voters will continue to increase the levy to meet those =
needs.<BR><BR>Mike=20
=
Curley<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________=
______=20
List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the =
communities=20
of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net =
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com=20
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////=20
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