[Vision2020] Re: Vision2020 digest, Vol 1 #152 - 9 msgs
aphro dite
aphro@angelfire.com
Sat, 01 Mar 2003 14:46:34 -0800
In honor of those in digest form, and dedicated to those who *truly listen* to everyone's opinions and suggestions on this forum (including simple ideas like using the delete button), my comment will be posted at the bottom of this. Please scroll down to read it.
--
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:00:02
vision2020-request wrote:
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Arrest aftermath (Douglas)
> 2. Betrayal (DonaldH675@aol.com)
> 3. Arrest aftermath (Carl Westberg)
> 4. Latah County Planning Commission Agenda (london@moscow.com)
> 5. RE: Arrest aftermath (Thomas Hansen)
> 6. RE: Arrest aftermath (thansen@moscow.com)
> 7. Floating like a lead balloon, stinging like jock itch (Joan Opyr)
> 8. Re: Arrest aftermath (Debbie Gray)
> 9. RE: Floating like a lead balloon, stinging like jock itch (Doug Jones)
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:52:32 -0800
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>From: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>
>Subject: [Vision2020] Arrest aftermath
>
>Visionaries,
>
>It is quite right that in a judicial setting, the accused enter that forum
>with the assumption of innocence. That is the necessary assumption of a
>righteous court system. It does not have to be the assumption of particular
>individuals -- as in, say, detectives, prosecutors, and individuals who
>might need to testify against the accused.
>
>At my forum on Islam, I was told by the Muslims in attendance that the
>Koran forbids war on women and children. Now if it turns out (as has not
>yet been established) that one of the Muslims present was giving material
>comfort and support to people who were doing precisely that in the name of
>Islam, what conclusions would be legitimate to draw?
>
>One direction that should at least be noted is that lying to the infidel is
>perfectly acceptable. And with many PC infidels, it is not that strenuous a
>task.
>
>Cordially,
>
>Douglas
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 2
>From: DonaldH675@aol.com
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:49:33 EST
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Betrayal
>
>
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>Dear Visionaries,
>Betrayal is a word that President Hoover should avoid introducing into any
>conversation. The recent revelations concerning the problematic funding of
>the Idaho Center in Boise, and the complex accounting operations that
>obscured the source and use of the money seem to me to be, at the very least,
>duplicitous.
>Rosemary Huskey
>
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><HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=
>=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Dear Visionaries,<BR>
>Betrayal is a word that President Hoover should avoid introducing into any c=
>onversation. The recent revelations concerning the problematic funding=
> of the Idaho Center in Boise, and the complex accounting operations that ob=
>scured the source and use of the money seem to me to be, at the very least,=20=
>duplicitous. <BR>
>Rosemary Huskey<BR>
></FONT></HTML>
>--part1_12a.241f42d3.2b90ed1d_boundary--
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 3
>From: "Carl Westberg" <carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:15:35 -0800
>Subject: [Vision2020] Arrest aftermath
>
>
>Question for Doug Wilson. You continue to paint an entire religion, and
>apparently all persons in that religion, with one broad brush. Would it be
>beyond you to urge residents of our town, including your followers, to treat
>the Muslims among us with respect, kindness, and dignity? I don't believe I
>caught any such message in your previous post.
>
> Carl Westberg Jr.
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:16:57 -0800
>Organization: Latah County
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>From: london@moscow.com
>Reply-to: vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Latah County Planning Commission Agenda
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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>The Latah County Planning Commission agenda for Tuesday, March 4th, =
>2003, is available at http://www.latah.id.us/Comm/PlanZone_Main.htm
>
>
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><META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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><META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
><STYLE></STYLE>
></HEAD>
><BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
><DIV>The Latah County Planning Commission agenda for Tuesday, March 4th, =
>2003,=20
>is available at <A=20
>href=3D"http://www.latah.id.us/Comm/PlanZone_Main.htm">http://www.latah.i=
>d.us/Comm/PlanZone_Main.htm</A><BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 5
>From: Thomas Hansen <tomh@FNA.fsn.uidaho.edu>
>To: "'Douglas'" <dougwils@moscow.com>, vision2020@moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Arrest aftermath
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:21:13 -0800
>
>Douglas Wilson stated:
>
>"Now if it turns out (as has not yet been established) that one of the
>Muslims present was giving material comfort and support to people who were
>doing precisely that in the name of
>Islam, what conclusions would be legitimate to draw?"
>
>Ladies and gentlemen, this is precisely how paranoia and prejudice begin;
>Characteristics wrongly attributed to a circumstance without substantiation.
>This would be akin to saying, "If George W were proven to be a cross
>dressing trans-sexual, what conclusions could be legitimately drawn
>concerning former governors of the state of Texas (exception given to Ann
>Richards)."
>
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 6
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>From: thansen@moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Arrest aftermath
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:04:08 GMT
>
>Greetings Visionaires -
>
>Mr. Wilson uses a slogan that constantly provides a false sense of credibility
>to subsequent statements; "as has not yet been established". To me, this
>statement suggests that what follows is widely believed and that substantiation
>is forthcoming. Nothing could be further from the truth in this particular
>instance.
>
>This slogan is extremely similar to another one that has been used in the
>past; "I want to put an end to the rumor that . . . ". To me, that is the
>quickest way to start a rumor.
>
>Be careful of what you decide to believe.
>
>Take care of yourselves (and each other),
>
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow,
>Idaho
>
>---------------------------------------------
>This message was sent by First Step Internet.
> http://www.fsr.net/
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>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 7
>From: "Joan Opyr" <auntiestablishment@hotmail.com>
>To: "Vision2020 Moscow" <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:20:59 -0800
>Subject: [Vision2020] Floating like a lead balloon, stinging like jock itch
>
>
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>Here I go again, poking holes in lead balloons. This liberal woman enjoy=
>s boxing. I like to watch it on TV, and I like to punch the old bag that=
> hangs out in my garage. (No, I don=E2=80=99t mean Rose. Well, not just=
> her, anyway.) I have a good left jab and a great right uppercut, and we=
>re I not married to a devout Quaker, I=E2=80=99d offer to go three rounds=
> with Doug, Nate, Dale, et al. I=E2=80=99m guessing there are a lot of g=
>lass jaws living in those glass houses.
>
>As for that other dear old bag, Rose=E2=80=99s point was not just that sh=
>e finds boxing barbaric; it was that she finds the connection between box=
>ing and such an assertively self-professed Christian group puzzling. It=E2=
>=80=99s hard to picture the man who told us to love our neighbor and turn=
> the other cheek floating over a boxing ring in a Don King wig. Jesus pr=
>omised to come back to judge the quick and the dead, not to kick our asse=
>s and bite off our ears.
>
>Nevertheless, I can see why boxing would be a better fund raiser than, sa=
>y, a lecture series. I'd happily pay to watch Nate and company open up c=
>ans of whoop-ass on one another, whereas I wouldn=E2=80=99t give a plug n=
>ickel to hear an intolerant preacher talk through his hat on the nature o=
>f Islam.
>
>Auntie Establishment/Joan Opyr Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer=
> download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
>------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C2DF1B.7817EC60
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><HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV><FONT size=3D3=
>><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman">Here I go again, poking holes in lea=
>d balloons.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This liberal w=
>oman enjoys boxing.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I like=
> to watch it on TV, and I like to punch the old bag that hangs out in my =
>garage.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>(No, I don=E2=80=99=
>t mean Rose.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Well, not jus=
>t her, anyway.)<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have a g=
>ood left jab and a great right uppercut, and were I not married to a devo=
>ut Quaker, I=E2=80=99d offer to go three rounds with Doug, Nate, Dale, et=
> al.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I=E2=80=99m guessing =
>there are a lot of glass jaws living in those glass houses.</FONT></FONT>=
></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>As =
>for that other dear old bag, Rose=E2=80=99s point was not just that she f=
>inds boxing barbaric; it was that she finds the connection between boxing=
> and such an assertively self-professed Christian group puzzling.<SPAN st=
>yle=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It=E2=80=99s hard to picture the =
>man who told us to love our neighbor and turn the other cheek floating ov=
>er a boxing ring in a Don King wig.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbs=
>p; </SPAN>Jesus promised to come back to judge the quick and the dead, no=
>t to kick our asses and bite off our ears.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV>=
> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Nevertheless, I can see why=
> boxing would be a better fund raiser than, say, a lecture series.&n=
>bsp; <SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">I'd happily pay to watch Nate and =
>company open up cans of whoop-ass on one another, whereas </SPAN>I w=
>ouldn=E2=80=99t give a plug nickel to hear an intolerant preacher talk th=
>rough his hat on the nature of Islam.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"Tim=
>es New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3><FONT face=
>=3D"Times New Roman">Auntie Establishment/Joan Opyr<SPAN style=3D"mso-spa=
>cerun: yes"> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML><br clear=3Da=
>ll><hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : <a href=3D'ht=
>tp://explorer.msn.com'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>
>
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>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:24:03 -0800 (PST)
>From: Debbie Gray <dgray@uidaho.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Arrest aftermath
>To: Carl Westberg <carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>
>Cc: vision2020@moscow.com
>
>President Hoover also has to look at a wider community than just
>Moscow--the parents of all of his students. He represents this institution
>and parents have entrusted their children to him. I'm CERTAIN there are
>parents calling from all over the country who are concerned with the
>immediate safety of their kids. Speaking as the daughter of a man who
>called the president (Tom Bell?) when I was a freshman because I had
>complained that my dorm suite-mates were being loud and he wanted that
>TAKEN CARE OF NOW ... I know there are parents out there demanding
>assurance about the safety of their kids.
>
>Debbie
>
>On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Carl Westberg wrote:
>
>>
>> I just heard a sound bite of President Hoover assuring Moscow residents,
>> students, and parents of U of I students that the university and our town
>> are safe, following the incident the other day. Does anyone really feel any
>> less safe than we did 48 hours ago? This is somewhat overwrought, in my
>> opinion. If anyone does have a justification for increased anxiety, I
>> believe it would be the innocent Muslims living in our Palouse community.
>>
>> Carl Westberg Jr.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>>
>
>Debbie
>
>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
> Debbie Gray dgray@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~dgray/
> We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to
> have the life that is waiting for us." --Joseph Campbell
>%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%^%
>
>
>--__--__--
>
>Message: 9
>From: "Doug Jones" <credenda@moscow.com>
>To: "'Vision 20/20'" <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Floating like a lead balloon, stinging like jock itch
>Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:37:01 -0500
>
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
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>Joan wrote:
>=20
>she finds the connection between boxing and such an assertively =
>self-professed Christian group puzzling. It=E2=80=99s hard to picture =
>the man who told us to love our neighbor and turn the other cheek =
>floating over a boxing ring in a Don King wig.=20
>=20
>Perhaps her puzzlement comes from thinking in an either-or fashion =
>(sheesh, that Modernity thing again). Trinitarianism is =
>many-dimensional, like the Bible. King David is considered a man after =
>God=E2=80=99s own heart, yet he was a warrior. =E2=80=9CTo everything =
>there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven: A time to =
>kill, And a time to heal; A time to break down, And a time to build =
>up=E2=80=9D (Eccl. 3:1,3). There=E2=80=99s a time to take a punch and a =
>time to pass. Life=E2=80=99s not simplistic. It would be immoral for my =
>son to turn his cheek in an alley if his sisters were being beat up. =
>Boxing skills keep him from that sort of sentimental immorality.=20
>=20
>=20
> Jesus promised to come back to judge the quick and the dead, not to =
>kick our asses and bite off our ears.
>=20
>Well . . . not everyone=E2=80=99s butt.
>=20
>Doug Jones
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
> _____ =20
>
>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : =
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>
><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"OrigGarmnd =
>BT"><span
>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"OrigGarmnd BT";color:black'>Joan =
>wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"OrigGarmnd =
>BT"><span
>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"OrigGarmnd =
>BT";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
><div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in =
>0in 4.0pt'>
>
><div>
>
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times =
>New Roman"><span
>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>she</span></font></span> finds the connection =
>between
>boxing and such an assertively self-professed Christian group =
>puzzling.<span
>style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=C2=A0 </span>It=E2=80=99s hard to picture =
>the man who told us to
>love our neighbor and turn the other cheek floating over a boxing ring =
>in a Don
>King wig. <font color=3Dblack><span =
>style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"OrigGarmnd =
>BT"><span
>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"OrigGarmnd =
>BT";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"OrigGarmnd =
>BT"><span
>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"OrigGarmnd =
>BT";color:black'>Perhaps her
>puzzlement comes from thinking in an either-or fashion (sheesh, that =
>Modernity
>thing again). Trinitarianism is many-dimensional, like the Bible. King =
>David is
>considered a man after God=E2=80=99s own heart, yet he was a warrior. =
>=E2=80=9CTo everything
>there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven: A time to =
>kill, And a
>time to heal; A time to break down, And a time to build up=E2=80=9D =
>(Eccl. 3:1<span
>class=3DGramE>,3</span>). There=E2=80=99s a time to take a punch and a =
>time to pass. Life=E2=80=99s
>not simplistic. It would be immoral for my son to turn his cheek in an =
>alley if
>his sisters were being beat up. Boxing skills keep him from that sort of =
>sentimental
>immorality. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"OrigGarmnd =
>BT"><span
>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"OrigGarmnd =
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>
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>come back to
>judge the quick and the dead, not to kick our asses and bite off our =
>ears.<font
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>
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>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"OrigGarmnd BT";color:black'>Well =
>. . . not
>everyone=E2=80=99s butt.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
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>style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"OrigGarmnd BT";color:black'>Doug =
>Jones<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
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>
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>
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>
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>style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
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></body>
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></html>
><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : =
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>End of Vision2020 Digest
>
Yes, I am more scared than I was before Wednesday. Whether Sami is guilty or not, I am scared. I'm scared for his wife, and family, and the other Muslim students on campus. I'm scared that McCarthyism is not already alive and well. I'm scared because of the freedoms granted us in the constitution are being taken away by the Patriot Act. I'm scared that the press, both large and small, are reporting as if he is a terrorist, before anything has been proven or tried.
I'm scared that if I publish a webpage trying to explain my religion to non-members, and the government suspects that religion of any possible connection to anything middle-eastern I could be arrested. I'm scared because I pay tithing to my church, and because that money is used for various things like building up my church, funding missionaries, feeding the needy in all coutries, infant and hygiene kits for poor countries, that I could be accused of funneling money to terrorist countries. I'm scared that its ok for rich high-profile citizens to lie to the country (take almost any president, for example) but a Saudi-Arabian student who forgets to mention his every-detail of religious and lifestyle practice can have hundreds of FBI agents lined up to arrest him.
Yes, this is very scary.
Amber Montgomery
P.S.
Pretty pretty please, delete unnecessary parts when replying to emails. I've asked twice now. Thank you.
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