[Vision2020] Heaven and hell?
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Sun, 29 Jun 2003 15:09:52 -0700
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Ralph,</P>
<P>I have already been ten rounds with Luke about what you said about "Some of the most atrocious human actions have been done in the name of a god." He doesn't believe it and will argue tell he is blue in the face. : )</P></DIV>
<P>Luke is a little confused and young. However, he is good kid. I like him. But he doesn't understand "reality" from "fiction" when it comes to the real world.</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>So before you head down that road, just know you will never convince him of anything unless it is in the Bible, and even then, it is based on his interpretation of the bible, because the bible is infallible because God wrote it, and wrote it so Luke could in no possible way misunderstand it or its meanings. : )</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Take Care,</P>
<DIV></DIV>
<P>Donovan J Arnold <BR><BR></P>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Ralph Nielsen <NIELSEN@UIDAHO.EDU>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>To: vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: [Vision2020] Heaven and hell?
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2003 14:43:23 -0700
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>From: Luke <LUKENIEUWSMA@SOFTHOME.NET>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Date: Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:49:24 PM US/Pacific
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>To: vision2020 <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>, David Camden-Britton
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>><DAVIDCB@ACM.ORG>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Religious Diversity Education
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Mr. Camden-Britton:
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>>There are the interesting ideas of Utilitarian ethics, whereby
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>>activities
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>which benefit >society as a whole are encouraged, and those that do
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>not are
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>discouraged or halted. >For simple situations such as murder or
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>theft, it
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>seems pretty clear that society does >not benefit, so one has an
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>ethical
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>duty to not engage in these acts.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Non sequit[u]r. Perhaps society may not be helped, but then, if
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>there really
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>is no god at all, why should anyone bother to help society or worry
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>about
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>morals ? We'll all be dead in a few decades anyway[s].
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>><SNIP>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Best,
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>>Luke Nieuwsma
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Nieuwsma seems to have the idea that moral behavior depends on
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>the existence of a god or gods. Some of the most atrocious human
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>actions have been done in the name of a god. He also seems to imply
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>that it is the threat of postmortem punishment by a god that makes
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>people behave morally. This is flatly contradicted by the Hebrew
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Bible (Old Testament to Christians).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>In the Hebrew religion there is no such thing as a separate soul and
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>there is no life after death. In the entire Old Testament not one
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>single person dies and goes to heaven. And no one dies and goes to
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>hell either (except in dishonest translations like the King James
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Version).
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>I'm afraid Luke Nieuwsma is mistaken to think that most people act
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>morally only by a bribe of heaven or a threat of hell.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Ralph Nielsen
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>Moscow
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>_____________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.fsr.net
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Add photos to your messages with <a href="http://g.msn.com/8HMDENUS/2749??PS=">MSN 8. </a> Get 2 months FREE*.</html>