[Vision2020] A few facts about Palouse water
Dale Courtney
dale@courtneys.us
Sat, 19 Jul 2003 15:37:29 -0700
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Bill,
=20
First, I'm not talking about "wasting" water. I've been very diligent to
follow the evening watering times, install drip systems in my garden, =
and
reset the sprinklers to ensure no water gets on the driveway/pavement.=20
=20
However, what may be a waste for you and me (watering golf courses) may =
not
be a waste to someone else. In an allegedly "free" country, people =
should
have the right to make that decision -- don't you agree?=20
=20
Second, what do we know?=20
* We do know that the level in the Grande Ronde aquifer is falling 1-2
ft/year for the last 50 years.=20
* We do know that the level in the Wanapum aquifer has been rising for
the last 40 years.=20
However, if our water supply were really depleting, as the MCA alleges, =
I'd
be marching with you down the path to increase prices on water (since =
that
would lower usage).=20
=20
However, since the total water available to us is not decreasing but =
perhaps
is even increasing, MCA is going down the wrong path.=20
=20
Finally, I think it is deceptive of the MCA to tell everyone that our =
water
supply is dwindling without acknowledging the Wanapum aquifer and what =
is
available to us. I think that you would have more allies in this fight =
if
you were open and honest with your information and data. Instead, it =
looks
like you are hiding the facts in order to press your agenda.=20
=20
Best,
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of Bill London
Sent: Saturday, 19 July, 2003 13:31
To: Dale Courtney
Cc: 'David Camden-Britton'; vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A few facts about Palouse water
D-=20
I don't quite get it. If you are looking for someone to tell you it's =
just
fine to waste water 'cause you assume we must have plenty of it--you are =
not
getting that from me.=20
In response to your specific question, I think the best answer is: =
nobody
really knows for sure.=20
Just because all the geological specifics are not known is not license =
to
continue to waste water.=20
As I understand it, the city of Moscow and UI a few decades ago started
sucking water from the deep aquifer since the shallower aquifer was =
going
down and was not as pure (lots of iron, etc). So, since the wells are
sucking the deep aquifer now, the shallow aquifer is able to refill.=20
And since the water mining impact has shifted to the lower aquifer, it =
is
dropping fast.=20
Whether the water comes from the upper or lower aquifer (or if there are =
a
myriad of aquifers down there), there is no justification for continued
water mining.=20
BL=20
=20
=20
=20
Dale Courtney wrote:=20
Bill,That doesn't cut it for an answer. The issue is not how much water =
is
or should be going to water golf courses. The question is -- is the =
total
amount of water of the two aquifers falling? Or is it just the deep =
aquifer
that is lowering? Please answer that one question. Best,=20
Dale=20
-----Original Message-----=20
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of Bill London=20
Sent: Friday, 18 July, 2003 16:22=20
To: David Camden-Britton=20
Cc: vision2020@moscow.com=20
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A few facts about Palouse water=20
=20
Please do not be so quick to assume that Elsa Peters is injecting fact =
into
this discussion of aquifers (in her letter reprinted below).=20
Elsa Peters reflects her own biases more than facts in her letter about =
the
aquifer.=20
She asserts that more water is pumped from the aquifer for golf courses =
than
is used in the ever-expanding number of homes (each with toilets, lawns,
sinks, etc). The UI golf course uses recycled effluent water--not water
pumped from the aquifer. The Elks golf course has its own well that =
pumps
from the recharging upper aquifer. The homes in Moscow rely on water =
pumped
from the deep wells that are, in fact, dropping more than a foot in =
depth
annually.=20
Concern for this diminishing aquifer source is not an irrational fear, =
it's
just common sense.=20
BL=20
David Camden-Britton wrote:=20
Great... Nice. Take a fine emotional issue that we can rant and rave =
about
and inject facts into it! Fie upon this so-called "Geologist"! What is
that anyway? Something like a geomancer? She's a wizard! Yes!=20
PS: Thanks for the post, Dale.=20
At 06:45 PM 7/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:=20
A few facts about Palouse water=20
It's a nice change of pace to see Wayne Olson's letter to the editor
(Opinion, July 9) asking for facts, not rhetoric, about "our aquifer."=20
First fact: There are at least two aquifers below Pullman and Moscow. =
There
may be more, but two are known to all drillers and geologists in the =
area.=20
Second fact: The water level of the upper (more shallow) aquifer is not
dropping at all. Indeed, water levels in the upper aquifer have done =
nothing
but rise in my lifetime (I'm 43).=20
Third fact: The water levels near Moscow-Pullman city wells in the lower
aquifer are dropping. That statement, however, does not imply that the =
water
levels farther away are dropping (it's a huge aquifer) nor does it imply
that we "will run out" of water in the lower aquifer. Ask another =
geologist
if you don't care to believe me on these points.=20
Fourth fact: Most water used in both Moscow and Pullman during the =
summer is
not consumed by "new housing developments," a favorite target of members =
of
the Moscow Civic Association (most of whom, of course, were new arrivals =
on
the Palouse themselves some years back). Most water used in the summer =
goes
to watering golf courses, not to flushing the toilets of new city =
residents.
More facts and less fear could greatly help move our public discussion =
of
water use forward. Thanks, Wayne, for asking.=20
Elsa Kirsten Peters=20
Pullman
David Camden-Britton -=3D)*(=3D- davidcb@acm.org
_____________________________________________________ List services made
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994. http://www.fsr.net mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>Bill,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>First,=20
I'm not talking about "wasting" water. I've been very diligent to follow =
the=20
evening watering times, install drip systems in my garden, and reset the =
sprinklers to ensure no water gets on the driveway/pavement.=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>However, what may be a waste for you and me (watering golf =
courses) may=20
not be a waste to someone else. In an allegedly "free" country, people =
should=20
have the right to make that decision -- don't you agree? =
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>Second, what do we know? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<UL>
<LI><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000 size=3D2>We=20
<U>do</U> know that the level in the Grande Ronde aquifer is falling =
1-2=20
ft/year for the last 50 years. </FONT></SPAN></LI>
<LI><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#800000 size=3D2>We=20
<U>do</U> know that the level in the Wanapum aquifer has been rising =
for the=20
last 40 years. </FONT></SPAN></LI></UL>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>However, if our water supply were really depleting, as the MCA =
alleges,=20
I'd be marching with you down the path to increase prices on water =
(since that=20
would lower usage). </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2><U>However</U>, since the total water available to us is =
<U>not</U>=20
decreasing but perhaps is even increasing, MCA is going down the wrong =
path.=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2>Finally, I think it is deceptive of the MCA to tell everyone =
that our=20
water supply is dwindling without acknowledging the Wanapum aquifer and =
what is=20
available to us. I think that you would have more allies in this fight =
if you=20
were open and honest with your information and data. Instead, it looks =
like you=20
are hiding the facts in order to press your agenda. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D422362822-19072003><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#800000 =
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3DArial>Best,</FONT><BR></FONT><FONT face=3D"Vladimir Script"=20
size=3D5>Dale</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #800000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] <B>On =
Behalf=20
Of </B>Bill London<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 19 July, 2003 =
13:31<BR><B>To:</B>=20
Dale Courtney<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'David Camden-Britton';=20
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] A few facts =
about=20
Palouse water<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>D- <BR>I don't quite get it. =
If you=20
are looking for someone to tell you it's just fine to waste water =
'cause you=20
assume we must have plenty of it--you are not getting that from me. =
<BR>In=20
response to your specific question, I think the best answer is: nobody =
really=20
knows for sure. <BR>Just because all the geological specifics are not =
known is=20
not license to continue to waste water. <BR>As I understand it, the =
city of=20
Moscow and UI a few decades ago started sucking water from the deep =
aquifer=20
since the shallower aquifer was going down and was not as pure (lots =
of iron,=20
etc). So, since the wells are sucking the deep aquifer now, the =
shallow=20
aquifer is able to refill. <BR>And since the water mining impact has =
shifted=20
to the lower aquifer, it is dropping fast. <BR>Whether the water comes =
from=20
the upper or lower aquifer (or if there are a myriad of aquifers down =
there),=20
there is no justification for continued water mining. <BR>BL =
<BR> =20
<BR> <BR> =20
<P>Dale Courtney wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE"> <SPAN class=3D161401523-18072003><FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT=20
size=3D-1>Bill,</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D161401523-18072003></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D161401523-18072003><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT size=3D-1>That doesn't cut =
it for an=20
answer. The issue is not how much water is or should be going to =
water golf=20
courses. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D161401523-18072003></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D161401523-18072003><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT size=3D-1>The question is =
-- is the=20
<U>total</U> amount of water of the two aquifers falling? Or is it=20
<U>just</U> the deep aquifer that is=20
lowering? </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D161401523-18072003></SPAN><SPAN =
class=3D161401523-18072003><FONT=20
face=3DArial><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT size=3D-1>Please answer =
that one=20
question. </FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN> <FONT =
face=3DArial><FONT=20
color=3D#800000><FONT size=3D-1>Best,</FONT></FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3D"Vladimir Script"><FONT color=3D#800000><FONT=20
size=3D+2>Dale</FONT></FONT></FONT>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #800000 =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr><FONT =
face=3DTahoma><FONT=20
size=3D-1>-----Original Message-----</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D-1><B>From:</B> =
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-admin@mosco=
w.com</A>]=20
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Bill London</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DTahoma><FONT=20
size=3D-1><B>Sent:</B> Friday, 18 July, 2003 16:22</FONT></FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D-1><B>To:</B> David =
Camden-Britton</FONT></FONT>=20
<BR><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT size=3D-1><B>Cc:</B>=20
vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT=20
size=3D-1><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] A few facts about =
Palouse=20
water</FONT></FONT> <BR> </DIV>Please do not be so quick to =
assume=20
that Elsa Peters is injecting fact into this discussion of =
aquifers (in=20
her letter reprinted below). <BR>Elsa Peters reflects her own =
biases more=20
than facts in her letter about the aquifer. <BR>She asserts that =
more=20
water is pumped from the aquifer for golf courses than is used in =
the=20
ever-expanding number of homes (each with toilets, lawns, sinks,=20
etc). The UI golf course uses recycled effluent water--not =
water=20
pumped from the aquifer. The Elks golf course has its own =
well that=20
pumps from the recharging upper aquifer. The homes in Moscow =
rely on=20
water pumped from the deep wells that are, in fact, dropping more =
than a=20
foot in depth annually. <BR>Concern for this diminishing aquifer =
source is=20
not an irrational fear, it's just common sense. <BR>BL=20
<P>David Camden-Britton wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3D"CITE">Great... Nice. Take a fine =
emotional issue=20
that we can rant and rave about and inject facts into it! =
Fie upon=20
this so-called "Geologist"! What is that anyway? =
Something=20
like a geomancer? She's a wizard! Yes!=20
<P>PS: Thanks for the post, Dale.=20
<P>At 06:45 PM 7/17/2003 -0700, you wrote:=20
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><B><FONT =
color=3D#800000>A=20
few facts about Palouse water</FONT></B>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#800000>It's a nice change of pace to see =
Wayne Olson's=20
letter to the editor (Opinion, July 9) asking for facts, not =
rhetoric,=20
about "our aquifer."</FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#800000>First fact: There are at least two =
aquifers=20
below Pullman and Moscow. There may be more, but two are known =
to all=20
drillers and geologists in the area.</FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#800000>Second fact: The water level of the =
upper (more=20
shallow) aquifer is not dropping at all. Indeed, water levels =
in the=20
upper aquifer have done nothing but rise in my lifetime (I'm=20
43).</FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#800000>Third fact: The water levels near=20
Moscow-Pullman city wells in the lower aquifer are dropping. =
That=20
statement, however, does not imply that the water levels =
farther away=20
are dropping (it's a huge aquifer) nor does it imply that we =
"will run=20
out" of water in the lower aquifer. Ask another geologist if =
you don't=20
care to believe me on these points.</FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#800000>Fourth fact: Most water used in both =
Moscow and=20
Pullman during the summer is not consumed by "new housing=20
developments," a favorite target of members of the Moscow =
Civic=20
Association (most of whom, of course, were new arrivals on the =
Palouse=20
themselves some years back). Most water used in the summer =
goes to=20
watering golf courses, not to flushing the toilets of new city =
residents.</FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#800000>More facts and less fear could =
greatly help=20
move our public discussion of water use forward. Thanks, =
Wayne, for=20
asking.</FONT>=20
<P><FONT color=3D#800000>Elsa Kirsten Peters</FONT>=20
<P><FONT =
color=3D#800000>Pullman</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE><X-SIGSEP>
<P></X-SIGSEP><FONT face=3D"Courier New, Courier">David =
Camden-Britton=20
-=3D)*(=3D- davidcb@acm.org</FONT>=20
_____________________________________________________ List =
services made=20
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the =
Palouse=20
since 1994. <A =
href=3D"http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A> <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A>=20
=
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