[Vision2020] Religious Diversity Education

[Ted Moffett]

Luke et. al.

Luke wrote:

>     Then why do you express it on the list? You see, Mr. Moffet, you are
>running
>into contradictions again. You say that you really aren't sure about
>religious truth, but you are definitely sure about one thing - no one can 
>be
>truly sure about anything!
>     You have a moral compass spray-painted over by chameleon-blue paint, 
>and
>you don't want to clean it off. You try to dodge absolute truth, and then
>you turn around and try to chuck it at me. You basically say that we can't
>be
>certain. Yet you are certain about that.
>     And you call my arguments "silly logic games," but that simply means 
>you
>cannot refute them. One army can yell insults at the other, but arrows are
>what thin the ranks.
>
>

Consider this sentence:  "This sentence is false."  If it is true, it must 
be false, so it is self contradictory.  Language allows us to make 
grammatically correct sentences that are logically absurd.  So much for 
grammar!  I never did think it all made sense the way I was taught in grades 
K-12!  These problems with language and logical systems have been studied in 
depth.  You might look at Godel's incompleteness theorem, which demonstrates 
some of the problems with logical systems, or Principia Mathematica, by B. 
Russell.

So when I say, "All absolutist belief systems are uncertain."  you reply, 
aha, but then that statement itself must be uncertain, so you are 
contradicting yourself if you with certainty make that statement.  But if 
you read what I said, for example, that perhaps Christ is our savior, you 
would realize that I am open to the possibility of an absolutist belief 
system being true, so really I am not being as seriously contradictory as 
you claim.  Self referential statements of various kinds can lead to 
contradictions like the ones above, exposing logical flaws in the rules of 
structure in language.   If language were logically perfect, such statements 
would not be allowed as well formed grammatical sentences.

My position is that human knowledge and thinking is so flawed, and the 
possibilities so numerous, that to claim to have solved the important 
spiritual questions that humanity has been posing for thousands of years, 
with no doubt remaining about these questions, appears to be aimed more at 
satisfying the emotional need for absolute spiritual belief, than at really 
answering these questions based on evidence.  And furthermore, that 
absolutist belief systems, especially when they are closed to evidence and 
logic that demonstrates there should be some doubt about the veracity of the 
details of these belief systems, leads to undesirable social/political 
consequences, i. e. extremist fundamentalists who justify killing and war, 
or abuse of women, or denial of civil rights, etc. based on these absolutist 
belief systems.  Remember I am including Communism and Fascism, so called 
"secular" belief systems, as absolutist belief systems.

Your position is like that of a scientist who claims to have already 
answered all the questions about cosmology, when there remains much evidence 
to gather and numerous different theories to ponder.

Your responses to Ralph Nielsen on V2020, who has a considerable knowledge 
of biblical scholarship, indicates a refusal to consider evidence that 
contradicts the exact one way of thinking you have already decided is the 
absolute truth about religion.  You also are subject to contradictions in 
your belief system, but you ignore the facts so as to deny the 
contradictions exist.

You are right, Luke, I sometimes do contradict myself.  And I acknowledge 
that with the limited tools of human thought, it is nearly impossible to 
think about complex belief systems without contradiction in some way.

I admit the limitations of my knowledge and beliefs.

Will you do the same?  Or are you going to claim that your thinking and 
logic is so perfect that you have not make any significant mistakes about 
religion, such as in your interpretations of Biblical scholarship?

Ted

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