[Vision2020] Patriot Act
Ted Moffett
ted_moffett@hotmail.com
Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:35:39 +0000
Ron, et. al.
Yes, this is correct, I think, and Don Kaag concurs, though we see that the
quote I gave has different wording that amounts to much the same meaning.
Ted
>: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:11:51 -0800
>
>How about this one from the Oxford Book of Quotations:
>
>"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
>[The Life of Reason (1905)]
>Santayana, George 1863 1952
>Spanish-born philosopher and critic
>
>
>
>********************************************
>Ron Force rforce@moscow.com
>Moscow Idaho USA
>********************************************
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
> > Behalf Of Ted Moffett
> > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:46 AM
> > To: bradneuman@moscow.com
> > Cc: vision2020@moscow.com
> > Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> >
> >
> >
> > Brad, et. al.
> >
> > Your quotes are hopefully in the long run NOT TRUE.
> >
> > I still think the specific quote, "Those who don't learn from history
>are
> > doomed to repeat it." is sourced from someone other than Shaw or Hegel,
> > though quotes such as these tend to mutate into various forms, so it is
> > possible that the quote I give here is a mutated form of what
> > Shaw or Hegel
> > said.
> >
> > Another quote that gets tossed around in various forms is Benjamin
> > Franklin's "Those who give up liberty for security deserve
> > neither." It is
> > amusing to observe how many different wordings of this quote are
> > attributed
> > to Franklin.
> >
> > Ted
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>
> > >To: "'Ted Moffett'" <ted_moffett@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:05:11 -0800
> > >
> > >Ted:
> > >
> > >Unfortunately George Bernard Shaw was correct when he said, "Hegel was
> > >right
> > >when he said that we learn from history that man can never learn
>anything
> > >from history." By the way, what Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel said
>was,
> > >"We
> > >learn from history that we do not learn from history."
> > >
> > >Evidently repetition does not make it any better.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Brad Neuman
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]
>On
> > >Behalf Of Ted Moffett
> > >Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:42 PM
> > >To: taze_fulford@hotmail.com; ddarrel_douglas@hotmail.com
> > >Cc: vision2020@moscow.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > >
> > >Taze, et. al.
> > >
> > >I thought your quote was quite appropriate considering current
> > events. I
> > >do not see the logic in interpreting the posting of this quote as an
> > >attempt
> > >
> > >to make a well developed argument that fails to make its case.
> > It seems a
> > >relevant quote from history that suggests that the methods of control
>of
> > >public opinion by our government might be the same here in the USA
>right
> > >now
> > >
> > >as some of the methods used by the Nazi's, hardly a far fetched
> > >proposition.
> > >
> > > Whether or not we are being manipulated in this manner is a very
> > >important
> > >
> > >question to ask.
> > >
> > >"Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. "
> > >
> > >Now who said that? I've heard it before, yet forget the source.
> > >
> > >Ted
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
> > > >To: "David Douglas" <ddarrel_douglas@hotmail.com>,
> > ><vision2020@moscow.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:37:15 -0800
> > > >
> > > >I was simply drawing a parallel to events that are taking place
>today.
> > > >Sorry there was no thesis and footnotes to go along with the quote.
> > > >People should be able to decide for themselves if they believe this
> > > >is a just war or not. I just happen to think that its about natural
> > > >resources and power. The simple relationship is that leaders do think
> > > >about how to bend the public opinion and do it everyday in endless
> > > >ways. Why is our government above using the same techniques on the
> > > >American people? The methods used by the Nazis are the same Americans
> > > >used to slaughter and put Native Americans on reservations, cause
> > >upheaval
> > > >in Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Argentina, Panama, Iran,
> > >Afghanistan,
> > >
> > > >etc.
> > > >Were those just wars as well? What makes this any different?
> > Because all
> > >of
> > >
> > > >a
> > > >sudden after 11 years its now time to deal with Saddam. Our country
>has
> > > >plenty
> > > >of blood on its hands as the result of greed and keeping the
> > status quo.
> > > >I for one, am tired of it.
> > > >
> > > >So to those that this fallacious appeal to emotion offended, I
> > apologize.
> > > >And as
> > > >for not making the case, it wasn't meant to do that, only to give a
> > > >historical
> > > >statement of a man in a position to provide a common enemy. It was
>only
> > > >meant
> > > >to get people to think, to not take the drivel we're given by the
>mass
> > > >media
> > > >and government as the whole truth, and to educate themselves about
>the
> > > >choices we make as a government by the people and for the
> > people. Not the
> > > >choices we make for Exxon, Haliburton, Northup Drummond,
> > Lockheed Martin,
> > > >and the others that will profit from war.
> > > >
> > > >Sincerely
> > > >Taze Fulford
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: David Douglas
> > > >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:10 PM
> > > >To: vision2020@moscow.com
> > > >Cc: taze_fulford@hotmail.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > > >
> > > >Visionaries:
> > > >
> > > >A more complete quote, sans elipsis, can be found here:
> > > >
> > > >http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm (bottom of page)
> > > >
> > > >For the most part the ommissions don't change the overall
> > thrust, but the
> > > >whole story is better than a quote--ex nihilo.
> > > >
> > > >However, I find this type of posting a fallacious appeal to
> > emotion more
> > > >than anything else.
> > > >
> > > >Just because a wicked man like Goering ate (at least) 3 meals a day
> > >doesn't
> > >
> > > >mean we should start fasting. Just because he had a low view of the
> > >masses
> > >
> > > >and was casual about war, doesn't mean that fighting a war is wrong
> > >(didn't
> > >
> > > >_America_ fight the Germans in World _War_ II) or that all leaders
>are
> > > >manipulating the masses.
> > > >
> > > >Is the point that this war is wrong, and that our leaders are budding
> > > >Goerings, and that the masses are simpletons being led along, or
>what?
> > > >These, and other possible points, may well be true, but simply
>posting
> > >this
> > >
> > > >quotation "doesn't make the case".
> > > >
> > > >David Douglas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
> > > > >To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl Westberg'"
> > > ><carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > > > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
> > > > >would be a good one to share with everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood.
> > But... it's
> > > >always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a
> > democracy,
> > >a
> > >
> > > >fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist
> > dictatorship. Voice or
> > > >no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
> > the leaders.
> > > >That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
>attacked,
> > >and
> > > >denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
> > country to
> > > >danger. It works the same in any country."
> > > > >
> > > > >- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
> > > > >from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Taze Fulford
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
> > > > >To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl Westberg'"
> > > ><carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > > > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
> > > > >
> > > > >I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
> > > > >would be a good one to share with everyone.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood.
> > But... it's
> > > >always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a
> > democracy,
> > >a
> > >
> > > >fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist
> > dictatorship. Voice or
> > > >no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
> > the leaders.
> > > >That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
>attacked,
> > >and
> > > >denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
> > country to
> > > >danger. It works the same in any country."
> > > > >
> > > > >- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
> > > > >from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Taze Fulford
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
> > >The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> > >http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> > >
> > >_____________________________________________________
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
> > >ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> > _____________________________________________________
> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net
> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
> > ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
> >
_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail