[Vision2020] Patriot Act
Ron Force
rforce@moscow.com
Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:11:51 -0800
How about this one from the Oxford Book of Quotations:
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
[The Life of Reason (1905)]
Santayana, George 1863 1952
Spanish-born philosopher and critic
********************************************
Ron Force rforce@moscow.com
Moscow Idaho USA
********************************************
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
> Behalf Of Ted Moffett
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:46 AM
> To: bradneuman@moscow.com
> Cc: vision2020@moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
>
>
>
> Brad, et. al.
>
> Your quotes are hopefully in the long run NOT TRUE.
>
> I still think the specific quote, "Those who don't learn from history are
> doomed to repeat it." is sourced from someone other than Shaw or Hegel,
> though quotes such as these tend to mutate into various forms, so it is
> possible that the quote I give here is a mutated form of what
> Shaw or Hegel
> said.
>
> Another quote that gets tossed around in various forms is Benjamin
> Franklin's "Those who give up liberty for security deserve
> neither." It is
> amusing to observe how many different wordings of this quote are
> attributed
> to Franklin.
>
> Ted
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>
> >To: "'Ted Moffett'" <ted_moffett@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> >Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:05:11 -0800
> >
> >Ted:
> >
> >Unfortunately George Bernard Shaw was correct when he said, "Hegel was
> >right
> >when he said that we learn from history that man can never learn anything
> >from history." By the way, what Georg Friedrich Wilhelm Hegel said was,
> >"We
> >learn from history that we do not learn from history."
> >
> >Evidently repetition does not make it any better.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Brad Neuman
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On
> >Behalf Of Ted Moffett
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 9:42 PM
> >To: taze_fulford@hotmail.com; ddarrel_douglas@hotmail.com
> >Cc: vision2020@moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> >
> >Taze, et. al.
> >
> >I thought your quote was quite appropriate considering current
> events. I
> >do not see the logic in interpreting the posting of this quote as an
> >attempt
> >
> >to make a well developed argument that fails to make its case.
> It seems a
> >relevant quote from history that suggests that the methods of control of
> >public opinion by our government might be the same here in the USA right
> >now
> >
> >as some of the methods used by the Nazi's, hardly a far fetched
> >proposition.
> >
> > Whether or not we are being manipulated in this manner is a very
> >important
> >
> >question to ask.
> >
> >"Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. "
> >
> >Now who said that? I've heard it before, yet forget the source.
> >
> >Ted
> >
> >
> > >From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
> > >To: "David Douglas" <ddarrel_douglas@hotmail.com>,
> ><vision2020@moscow.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:37:15 -0800
> > >
> > >I was simply drawing a parallel to events that are taking place today.
> > >Sorry there was no thesis and footnotes to go along with the quote.
> > >People should be able to decide for themselves if they believe this
> > >is a just war or not. I just happen to think that its about natural
> > >resources and power. The simple relationship is that leaders do think
> > >about how to bend the public opinion and do it everyday in endless
> > >ways. Why is our government above using the same techniques on the
> > >American people? The methods used by the Nazis are the same Americans
> > >used to slaughter and put Native Americans on reservations, cause
> >upheaval
> > >in Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Argentina, Panama, Iran,
> >Afghanistan,
> >
> > >etc.
> > >Were those just wars as well? What makes this any different?
> Because all
> >of
> >
> > >a
> > >sudden after 11 years its now time to deal with Saddam. Our country has
> > >plenty
> > >of blood on its hands as the result of greed and keeping the
> status quo.
> > >I for one, am tired of it.
> > >
> > >So to those that this fallacious appeal to emotion offended, I
> apologize.
> > >And as
> > >for not making the case, it wasn't meant to do that, only to give a
> > >historical
> > >statement of a man in a position to provide a common enemy. It was only
> > >meant
> > >to get people to think, to not take the drivel we're given by the mass
> > >media
> > >and government as the whole truth, and to educate themselves about the
> > >choices we make as a government by the people and for the
> people. Not the
> > >choices we make for Exxon, Haliburton, Northup Drummond,
> Lockheed Martin,
> > >and the others that will profit from war.
> > >
> > >Sincerely
> > >Taze Fulford
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: David Douglas
> > >Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:10 PM
> > >To: vision2020@moscow.com
> > >Cc: taze_fulford@hotmail.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > >
> > >Visionaries:
> > >
> > >A more complete quote, sans elipsis, can be found here:
> > >
> > >http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm (bottom of page)
> > >
> > >For the most part the ommissions don't change the overall
> thrust, but the
> > >whole story is better than a quote--ex nihilo.
> > >
> > >However, I find this type of posting a fallacious appeal to
> emotion more
> > >than anything else.
> > >
> > >Just because a wicked man like Goering ate (at least) 3 meals a day
> >doesn't
> >
> > >mean we should start fasting. Just because he had a low view of the
> >masses
> >
> > >and was casual about war, doesn't mean that fighting a war is wrong
> >(didn't
> >
> > >_America_ fight the Germans in World _War_ II) or that all leaders are
> > >manipulating the masses.
> > >
> > >Is the point that this war is wrong, and that our leaders are budding
> > >Goerings, and that the masses are simpletons being led along, or what?
> > >These, and other possible points, may well be true, but simply posting
> >this
> >
> > >quotation "doesn't make the case".
> > >
> > >David Douglas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
> > > >To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl Westberg'"
> > ><carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
> > > >
> > > >I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
> > > >would be a good one to share with everyone.
> > > >
> > > >"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood.
> But... it's
> > >always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a
> democracy,
> >a
> >
> > >fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist
> dictatorship. Voice or
> > >no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
> the leaders.
> > >That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
> >and
> > >denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
> country to
> > >danger. It works the same in any country."
> > > >
> > > >- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
> > > >from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Taze Fulford
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
> > > >To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl Westberg'"
> > ><carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
> > > >Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
> > > >
> > > >I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
> > > >would be a good one to share with everyone.
> > > >
> > > >"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood.
> But... it's
> > >always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a
> democracy,
> >a
> >
> > >fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist
> dictatorship. Voice or
> > >no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
> the leaders.
> > >That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
> >and
> > >denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
> country to
> > >danger. It works the same in any country."
> > > >
> > > >- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
> > > >from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Taze Fulford
> > > >
> >
> >
> >_________________________________________________________________
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