[Vision2020] Patriot Act
Charles Fulford
taze_fulford@hotmail.com
Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:37:15 -0800
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I was simply drawing a parallel to events that are taking place today.
Sorry there was no thesis and footnotes to go along with the quote.
People should be able to decide for themselves if they believe this =20
is a just war or not. I just happen to think that its about natural =20
resources and power. The simple relationship is that leaders do think
about how to bend the public opinion and do it everyday in endless
ways. Why is our government above using the same techniques on the
American people? The methods used by the Nazis are the same Americans
used to slaughter and put Native Americans on reservations, cause upheava=
l =20
in Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Argentina, Panama, Iran, Afghanista=
n, etc.
Were those just wars as well? What makes this any different? Because all =
of a =20
sudden after 11 years its now time to deal with Saddam. Our country has p=
lenty =20
of blood on its hands as the result of greed and keeping the status quo. =20
I for one, am tired of it. =20
So to those that this fallacious appeal to emotion offended, I apologize.=
And as =20
for not making the case, it wasn't meant to do that, only to give a histo=
rical =20
statement of a man in a position to provide a common enemy. It was only m=
eant
to get people to think, to not take the drivel we're given by the mass me=
dia =20
and government as the whole truth, and to educate themselves about the =20
choices we make as a government by the people and for the people. Not the=
=20
choices we make for Exxon, Haliburton, Northup Drummond, Lockheed Martin,
and the others that will profit from war.
Sincerely
Taze Fulford =20
=20
=20
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: David Douglas
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:10 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Cc: taze_fulford@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
=20
Visionaries:
A more complete quote, sans elipsis, can be found here:
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm (bottom of page)
For the most part the ommissions don't change the overall thrust, but the=
whole story is better than a quote--ex nihilo.
However, I find this type of posting a fallacious appeal to emotion more =
than anything else.
Just because a wicked man like Goering ate (at least) 3 meals a day doesn=
't mean we should start fasting. Just because he had a low view of the m=
asses and was casual about war, doesn't mean that fighting a war is wrong=
(didn't _America_ fight the Germans in World _War_ II) or that all leade=
rs are manipulating the masses.
Is the point that this war is wrong, and that our leaders are budding Goe=
rings, and that the masses are simpletons being led along, or what? Thes=
e, and other possible points, may well be true, but simply posting this q=
uotation "doesn't make the case".
David Douglas
>From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
>To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl Westberg'" <carlwest=
berg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
>
>I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
>would be a good one to share with everyone.
>
>"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But... it's =
always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy,=
a fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice=
or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the lead=
ers. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacke=
d, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the cou=
ntry to danger. It works the same in any country."
>
>- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
>from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
>
>
>Taze Fulford
>
>From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
>To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl Westberg'" <carlwest=
berg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
>
>I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
>would be a good one to share with everyone.
>
>"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But... it's =
always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy,=
a fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice=
or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the lead=
ers. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacke=
d, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the cou=
ntry to danger. It works the same in any country."
>
>- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
>from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
>
>
>Taze Fulford
>
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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>I was simply&n=
bsp;drawing a parallel to events that are taking place today.</DIV> <DIV>=
Sorry there was no thesis and footnotes to go along with the quote.</DIV>=
<DIV>People should be able to decide for themselves if they believe this=
</DIV> <DIV>is a just war or not. I just happen to think that its about =
natural </DIV> <DIV>resources and power. The simple relationship is that =
leaders do think</DIV> <DIV>about how to bend the public opinion and do i=
t everyday in endless</DIV> <DIV>ways. Why is our government above using =
the same techniques on the</DIV> <DIV>American people? The methods u=
sed by the Nazis are the same Americans</DIV> <DIV>used to slaughter and =
put Native Americans on reservations, cause upheaval </DIV> <DIV>in =
Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Argentina, Panama, Iran, Afghanis=
tan, etc.</DIV> <DIV>Were those just wars as well? What makes t=
his any different? Because all of a </DIV> <DIV>sudden after 11 years its=
now time to deal with Saddam. Our country has plenty </DIV> <DIV>of=
blood on its hands as the result of greed and keeping the stat=
us quo. </DIV> <DIV>I for one, am tired of it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <=
DIV>So to those that this fallacious appeal to emotion offended, I apolog=
ize. And as </DIV> <DIV>for not making the case, it wasn't meant to do th=
at, only to give a historical </DIV> <DIV>statement of a man in a positio=
n to provide a common enemy. It was only meant</DIV> <DIV>to ge=
t people to think, to not take the drivel we're given by the mass media <=
/DIV> <DIV>and government as the whole truth, and to educate themselves a=
bout the </DIV> <DIV>choices we make as a government by the people a=
nd for the people. Not the </DIV> <DIV>choices we make for Exxon, Ha=
liburton, Northup Drummond, Lockheed Martin,</DIV> <DIV>and the othe=
rs that will profit from war.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sincerely</DIV=
> <DIV>Taze Fulford </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> =
</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING=
-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGH=
T: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DI=
V> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>=
From:</B> David Douglas</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B=
> Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:10 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial=
"><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">=
<B>Cc:</B> taze_fulford@hotmail.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"=
><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>Visi=
onaries:<BR><BR>A more complete quote, sans elipsis, can be found here:<B=
R><BR>http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm (bottom of page)<BR>=
<BR>For the most part the ommissions don't change the overall thrust, but=
the whole story is better than a quote--ex nihilo.<BR><BR>However, I fin=
d this type of posting a fallacious appeal to emotion more than anything =
else.<BR><BR>Just because a wicked man like Goering ate (at least) 3 meal=
s a day doesn't mean we should start fasting. Just because he had a=
low view of the masses and was casual about war, doesn't mean that fight=
ing a war is wrong (didn't _America_ fight the Germans in World _War_ II)=
or that all leaders are manipulating the masses.<BR><BR>Is the point tha=
t this war is wrong, and that our leaders are budding Goerings, and that =
the masses are simpletons being led along, or what? These, and othe=
r possible points, may well be true, but simply posting this quotation "d=
oesn't make the case".<BR><BR>David Douglas<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>>From: =
"Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com><BR>>To: "Brad Neuma=
n" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl Westberg'" <carlw=
estberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>>Subject:=
Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act<BR>>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -080=
0<BR>><BR>>I got this quote from a friend today and thought it<BR>&=
gt;would be a good one to share with everyone.<BR>><BR>>"Of course =
the people don't want war... That is understood. But... it's always a sim=
ple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist d=
ictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice=
, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is=
easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denou=
nce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to dang=
er. It works the same in any country."<BR>><BR>>- Hermann Goering a=
t the Nuremberg trials, 1946<BR>>from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilb=
ert<BR>><BR>><BR>>Taze Fulford<BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><B=
R><BR>>From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com><BR>>=
;To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>, "'Carl West=
berg'" <carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>=
<BR>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act<BR>>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 20=
03 14:36:04 -0800<BR>><BR>>I got this quote from a friend today and=
thought it<BR>>would be a good one to share with everyone.<BR>><BR=
>>"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But... i=
t's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democr=
acy, a fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. V=
oice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the =
leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being att=
acked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the=
country to danger. It works the same in any country."<BR>><BR>>- H=
ermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946<BR>>from "Nuremberg Diary=
," by G. M. Gilbert<BR>><BR>><BR>>Taze Fulford<BR>><BR><BR></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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