[Vision2020] Patriot Act

Charles Fulford taze_fulford@hotmail.com
Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:04:37 -0800


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 =20
----- Original Message -----
From: David Douglas
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 4:13 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Cc: taze_fulford@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
 =20
Visionaries:

A more complete quote, sans elipsis, can be found here:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm  (bottom of page)

For the most part the ommissions don't change the overall thrust, but the=
 =20
whole story is better than a quote--ex nihilo.

However, I find this type of posting a fallacious appeal to emotion more =20
than anything else.

Just because a wicked man like Goering ate (at least) 3 meals a day doesn=
't =20
mean we should start fasting.  Just because he had a low view of the mass=
es =20
and was casual about war, doesn't mean that fighting a war is wrong (didn=
't =20
_America_ fight the Germans in World _War_ II) or that all leaders are =20
manipulating the masses.

Is the point that this war is wrong, and that our leaders are budding =20
Goerings, and that the masses are simpletons being led along, or what?  =20
These, and other possible points, may well be true, but simply posting th=
is =20
quotation "doesn't make the case".

David Douglas




>From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
>To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>,   "'Carl Westberg'" =20
><carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
>
>I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
>would be a good one to share with everyone.
>
>"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But... it's =20
>always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy=
, a =20
>fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice o=
r =20
>no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders=
. =20
>That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, a=
nd =20
>denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country t=
o =20
>danger. It works the same in any country."
>
>- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
>from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
>
>
>Taze Fulford
>







>From: "Charles Fulford" <taze_fulford@hotmail.com>
>To: "Brad Neuman" <bradneuman@moscow.com>,   "'Carl Westberg'" =20
><carlwestberg846@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act
>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800
>
>I got this quote from a friend today and thought it
>would be a good one to share with everyone.
>
>"Of course the people don't want war... That is understood. But... it's =20
>always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy=
, a =20
>fascist dictatorship, a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice o=
r =20
>no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders=
. =20
>That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, a=
nd =20
>denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country t=
o =20
>danger. It works the same in any country."
>
>- Hermann Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946
>from "Nuremberg Diary," by G. M. Gilbert
>
>
>Taze Fulford
>


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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <=
DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5=
px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">=
 <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV> <DIV =
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: black"><B>From:</B=
> David Douglas</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesda=
y, February 25, 2003 4:13 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:=
</B> vision2020@moscow.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Cc:</=
B> taze_fulford@hotmail.com</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subj=
ect:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>Visionaries:=
<BR><BR>A more complete quote, sans elipsis, can be found here:<BR><BR>ht=
tp://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm&nbsp; (bottom of page)<BR><BR>For =
the most part the ommissions don't change the overall thrust, but the <BR=
>whole story is better than a quote--ex nihilo.<BR><BR>However, I find th=
is type of posting a fallacious appeal to emotion more <BR>than anything =
else.<BR><BR>Just because a wicked man like Goering ate (at least) 3 meal=
s a day doesn't <BR>mean we should start fasting.&nbsp; Just because he h=
ad a low view of the masses <BR>and was casual about war, doesn't mean th=
at fighting a war is wrong (didn't <BR>_America_ fight the Germans in Wor=
ld _War_ II) or that all leaders are <BR>manipulating the masses.<BR><BR>=
Is the point that this war is wrong, and that our leaders are budding <BR=
>Goerings, and that the masses are simpletons being led along, or what?&n=
bsp; <BR>These, and other possible points, may well be true, but simply p=
osting this <BR>quotation "doesn't make the case".<BR><BR>David Douglas<B=
R><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "Charles Fulford" &lt;taze_fulford@hotmail.co=
m&gt;<BR>&gt;To: "Brad Neuman" &lt;bradneuman@moscow.com&gt;,&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 "'Carl Westberg'" <BR>&gt;&lt;carlwestberg846@hotmail.com&gt;, &lt;visio=
n2020@moscow.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act<BR>&gt;=
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I got this quote fro=
m a friend today and thought it<BR>&gt;would be a good one to share with =
everyone.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Of course the people don't want war... That is =
understood. But... it's <BR>&gt;always a simple matter to drag the people=
 along whether it's a democracy, a <BR>&gt;fascist dictatorship, a parlia=
ment, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or <BR>&gt;no voice, the people =
can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. <BR>&gt;That is easy=
. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and <BR>&gt;de=
nounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to <=
BR>&gt;danger. It works the same in any country."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- Herman=
n Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946<BR>&gt;from "Nuremberg Diary," by=
 G. M. Gilbert<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Taze Fulford<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR=
><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "Charles Fulford" &lt;taze_fulford@hotmail.com=
&gt;<BR>&gt;To: "Brad Neuman" &lt;bradneuman@moscow.com&gt;,&nbsp;&nbsp; =
"'Carl Westberg'" <BR>&gt;&lt;carlwestberg846@hotmail.com&gt;, &lt;vision=
2020@moscow.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Patriot Act<BR>&gt;D=
ate: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:36:04 -0800<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I got this quote from=
 a friend today and thought it<BR>&gt;would be a good one to share with e=
veryone.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Of course the people don't want war... That is u=
nderstood. But... it's <BR>&gt;always a simple matter to drag the people =
along whether it's a democracy, a <BR>&gt;fascist dictatorship, a parliam=
ent, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or <BR>&gt;no voice, the people c=
an always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. <BR>&gt;That is easy.=
 All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and <BR>&gt;den=
ounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to <B=
R>&gt;danger. It works the same in any country."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- Hermann=
 Goering at the Nuremberg trials, 1946<BR>&gt;from "Nuremberg Diary," by =
G. M. Gilbert<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Taze Fulford<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>____=
_____________________________________________________________<BR>MSN 8 wi=
th e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*&nbsp; <BR>http://join.=
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p; mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=
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