[Vision2020] Private E-mail On Vision2020? Blocking Vision2020 Subscribers?

Tina Cunningham kittz_cat@yahoo.com
Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:35:22 -0800 (PST)


Hello all,

I would like to pubically thank Ted for that insiteful
message.

I'm new here on Vision 2020, and I must say I was a
little skeptical to remain a subscriber because of all
of the negative messages people were sending.  

I agree that it is important to look at both sides of
issues, and debate.  It is also very important not to
take things too personally and belittle others.

This program is important to this community.  It is an
opportunity for the average "Joe Shmoe" to be heard by
important members in the community....(and boy do I
have a few bones to pick...  :)  
My point is....thank you Ted for reminding me why I
even signed up for this.

Christina Cunningham
Moscow
--- Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Don, et. al.
> 
> Maybe you did not realize it, but you posted on
> vision2020 a private letter 
> I had sent only to you dated Sunday, Feb. 23.  I
> believe the informal code 
> of conduct for vision2020 does not allow private
> e-mails to be publicly 
> posted except in special circumstances, like the
> threatening e-mail Bill 
> London just received from Douglas Stambler.  I have
> made this mistake 
> before, but I try to carefully check on whether an
> e-mail I have received 
> was sent only to me, and if it was, I try to avoid
> including it in any post 
> I make to vision2020.
> 
> Things have been getting nasty lately on vision2020
> with Stambler's antics, 
> which I just find amusing really, but seem to upset
> others quite a bit, 
> though I cannot imagine he really thinks anyone
> would read that long list of 
> vision2020 posts he submitted in one day!
> 
> And then Dale Courtney declares he is blocking
> certain vision2020 members 
> from his inbox.  If we all start blocking the
> communications of those we 
> don't like, vision2020 will not provide a true open
> forum for discussion.
> 
> I want to hear the voices of people I disagree with
> to challenge my 
> worldview and to gain more understanding of
> differing ideologies.  This is 
> why I listen to Rush Limbaugh, though he is a joke,
> and follow conservative 
> William F. Buckley Jr., who makes Limbaugh look like
> the buffoon he is, 
> though they supposedly are a part of the same
> political ideological 
> background.  I listen to Christian radio also to
> assimilate how they think, 
> though I am nearly militantly against all
> fundamentalist religion.
> 
> I want to be able to convincingly argue the opposite
> point of view on any of 
> my strongly held beliefs, both to check if I really
> have considered all the 
> angles, and to lessen the all too human tendency
> toward arrogant dogmatism, 
> which I have my good share of.
> 
> Thanks for your exchanges on vision2020, though I
> know some think certain 
> topics we have been tossing around are not the
> proper focus for vision2020, 
> which is supposed to be oriented toward just
> exclusively local issues.  
> However, in the interconnected world we live in it
> is a truism to point out 
> that national and global issues can impact local
> issues in major ways, so 
> that they become proper topics of local discussions.
> 
> Ted
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >From: Don Kaag <dkaag@turbonet.com>
> >To: Vision 2020 <vision2020@moscow.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Why doesn't the
> Sisterhood learn to shoot?
> >Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:21:27 -0800
> >
> >Ted:
> >
> >"improvise, adapt, overcome".
> >
> >Don Kaag
> >
> >On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 11:51 PM, Ted
> Moffett wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Don:
> >>
> >>While I can see where you are coming from and
> agree with much of what you 
> >>say, I think there is a contradiction in your
> worldview that you do not 
> >>recognize.  To be brief, you do believe that force
> can make a person, or a 
> >>government, conform to the agenda of the agency
> applying the force, do you 
> >>not?  As a former military man who recognizes the
> necessity and efficacy 
> >>of the use of force, I do not see how you can but
> agree with what I just 
> >>wrote.  Therefore, does it not follow that no
> matter what forces a self 
> >>determining mature adult person musters, superior
> force can defeat them?  
> >>Therefore it also follows that a women who faces a
> man willing to inflict 
> >>enough pain and suffering can bring such a women
> to defeat, and if said 
> >>man is clever enough, he can use methods that will
> bring the likelihood of 
> >>his being stopped by whomever, the police, friends
> of the women, social 
> >>services etc. rather unlikely.  Consider a man who
> threatens to kill the 
> >>women's children, or track the women down and kill
> her, wherever she goes, 
> >>if she turns the man into the police, even if he
> has to wait out a prison 
> >>term before he carries out his revenge.
> >>
> >>You may think these examples are extreme and rare,
> but they do exist far 
> >>more often than they should, and make my point,
> which is in contradiction 
> >>to your rather peculiar claim that women should
> not "complain," because 
> >>they are the ones turning themselves into victims.
>  Get real, will you!  
> >>People can be victimized against their will when
> they are very motivated 
> >>to not let it happen.
> >>
> >>Let's launch a campaign of zero tolerance against
> brutal men
> >>who abuse women!  Then we would see men "complain"
> about women's rights 
> >>being out of control, which is the attitude many
> men take > today.
> >>
> >>I hear you complaining about women who are just
> trying to gain attention 
> >>to a very serious social problem.  What is the
> problem in trying to raise 
> >>the issue of violence against women and the damage
> it does?  If you are 
> >>serious in your statements and are not just
> disputing various points for 
> >>the sake of a good argument, etc. I wonder why you
> are complaining about 
> >>this?
> >>
> >>Your insistence on total self determination for
> adults does not fit the 
> >>facts of human life, psychology and biology.  No
> one is a self made human 
> >>being, and being an "adult" does not suddenly
> confer special powers that 
> >>create a being of total self control over the
> forces in life.  Many people 
> >>do not work to get what they have, it is handed to
> them on a silver 
> >>platter, and many other people work their asses
> off and still get screwed 
> >>over in one way or another.  To deny this is to
> deny the facts.  No one is 
> >>totally a controller of their own destiny, and if
> this is the American 
> >>dream, as you state, well, the world is full of
> dreamers that are out of 
> >>touch with reality.  Of course I am not saying
> that self determintion and 
> >>hard work are not good values, but they are only
> part of the picture of 
> >>human life.
> >>
> >>Ted
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>From: Don Kaag <dkaag@turbonet.com>
> >>>To: "Ted Moffett" <ted_moffett@hotmail.com>
> >>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Why doesn't the
> Sisterhood learn to shoot?
> >>>Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 06:21:47 -0800
> >>>
> >>>Ted:
> >>>
> >>>No one can make you a victim if you do not accept
> victimhood.  We have 
> >>>laws in this country focused on that.  My point,
> which I am sure that you 
> >>>will never concede, is that once a person---male
> or female---reaches 
> >>>adulthood, they are, or ought to be, responsible
> for 
=== message truncated ===


=====
"Would you not like to be.....sittin on top of the world with your legs hanging free....."  **Dave Matthews Band

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