[Vision2020] Interesting Report by S&P on Michigan's Govt Schools
Sunil Ramalingam
sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:48:22 -0800
<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
<P>Bob, Bob, Bob,</P>
<P>Don't you know that schools are boxes? You have your inputs going in (dollars, donuts, whatever) and you have your outputs ( these will vary by the conclusion you want to come up with, just like the inputs) and then you just compare 'em. It's really simple! You don't even have to use the same inputs for the different boxes. </P>
<P>But no, you keep writing letters with all sorts of different things we're supposed to look at. Next you'll want us to do some serious thinking. That's silly! Plus you used several big words...What are you, some kind of subversive? </P>
<P>Cheers! (Not just a great way to end a letter, it's one of my favorite shows)</P>
<P>Sunil<BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: Bob Hoffmann <ESCAPE@ALT-ESCAPE.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Interesting Report by S&P on Michigan's Govt Schools
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 12:30:20 -0800
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>At 12:09 PM 2/4/2003 -0800, ben merkle wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>>A closer look could be very rewarding. Would anyone be up for
<DIV></DIV>>>comparing the
<DIV></DIV>>>Moscow High numbers with a local private school to see who is
<DIV></DIV>>>getting more
<DIV></DIV>>>out of their dollar?
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Sounds like the same false logic that I mentioned. The proper
<DIV></DIV>>perspective would be, Who is willing to compare Moscow High numbers
<DIV></DIV>>with a local private school, taking into account family income,
<DIV></DIV>>parental involvement, student nutrition, etc.? If you look at high
<DIV></DIV>>school student performance in Potlatch it seems like you are looking
<DIV></DIV>>at two different schools: One that is low-performing, given student
<DIV></DIV>>grades, and one that is high-performing. The fact is, Potlatch only
<DIV></DIV>>has one high school, but a rare double-bell curve in terms of
<DIV></DIV>>student performance, due in part to the vastly different backgrounds
<DIV></DIV>>that the students come from.
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>>----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>>>From: "Bob Hoffmann" <ESCAPE@ALT-ESCAPE.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>>To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>>Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:53 AM
<DIV></DIV>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Interesting Report by S&P on Michigan's
<DIV></DIV>>>Govt
<DIV></DIV>>>Schools
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>> > It would be interesting to take a closer look at the numbers. I
<DIV></DIV>>>know for
<DIV></DIV>>>a
<DIV></DIV>>> > fact that many inner city schools (in "slum" areas) have higher
<DIV></DIV>>>expenses
<DIV></DIV>>>in
<DIV></DIV>>> > some categories. For instance, they frequently must pay a
<DIV></DIV>>>higher wage to
<DIV></DIV>>> > attract teachers. This cannot compensate for students who come
<DIV></DIV>>>to school
<DIV></DIV>>> > hungry, who have uninvolved parents, who may have a higher drug
<DIV></DIV>>>use,
<DIV></DIV>>> > etc. In complicated areas like health and education, a simple
<DIV></DIV>>>look at
<DIV></DIV>>> > spending vs. performance is quite pointless. Speaking of which,
<DIV></DIV>>>the U.S.
<DIV></DIV>>> > government is said to spend more on health care than any other
<DIV></DIV>>>Western
<DIV></DIV>>> > nation, but it gets less for it. That's obviously not a case of
<DIV></DIV>>>"we're
<DIV></DIV>>> > spending too much," but a case of "we're not having the intended
<DIV></DIV>>>effect
<DIV></DIV>>> > with our dollars."
<DIV></DIV>>> >
<DIV></DIV>>> > Bob Hoffmann
<DIV></DIV>>> > 820 S. Logan St.
<DIV></DIV>>> > Moscow, ID 83843
<DIV></DIV>>> >
<DIV></DIV>>> > Tel: 208 883-0642
<DIV></DIV>>> >
<DIV></DIV>>> > At 09:44 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, John Harrell wrote:
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Standard & Poors releases data on state's public schools
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> >
<DIV></DIV>>> >http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/cgi-free/getstory_ssf.cg
<DIV></DIV>>>i?g9383_BC_MI--SchoolRatings&&news&newsflash-michigan
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >The Associated Press
<DIV></DIV>>> > >2/3/03 5:27 PM
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >LANSING, Mich. (AP) -- More than half the school districts that
<DIV></DIV>>>spent
<DIV></DIV>>>more
<DIV></DIV>>> > >per
<DIV></DIV>>> > >student than the state average had below-passing rates on the
<DIV></DIV>>>Michigan
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Educational
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Assessment Program test, according to an analysis of the
<DIV></DIV>>>state's public
<DIV></DIV>>> > >schools.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Standard & Poor's School Evaluation Services released a report
<DIV></DIV>>>Monday
<DIV></DIV>>>that
<DIV></DIV>>> > >analyzed trends in the state's public education system from
<DIV></DIV>>>1996-97 to
<DIV></DIV>>> > >2000-01.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >It's the second comprehensive report about Michigan's public
<DIV></DIV>>>schools.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >The division of Standard & Poor's, known for rating businesses,
<DIV></DIV>>>government
<DIV></DIV>>> > >agencies and even other countries, tracks where taxpayer
<DIV></DIV>>>dollars go and
<DIV></DIV>>> > >analyzes
<DIV></DIV>>> > >if spending increases boost student performance.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >The Statewide Insights report showed that of the 181 school
<DIV></DIV>>>districts
<DIV></DIV>>>that
<DIV></DIV>>> > >spent
<DIV></DIV>>> > >more per student than the state average, 92 had below-average
<DIV></DIV>>>passing
<DIV></DIV>>> > >rates on
<DIV></DIV>>> > >the MEAP. Of the 343 school districts with below-average
<DIV></DIV>>>spending, 171
<DIV></DIV>>>had
<DIV></DIV>>> > >above-average MEAP passing rates.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Other highlights of the report:
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >--The graduation rate increased from 80.7 percent of students
<DIV></DIV>>>in 1997 to
<DIV></DIV>>>86.3
<DIV></DIV>>> > >percent in 2001.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >--Per-student operating expenditures grew by 19 percent from
<DIV></DIV>>>1997 to
<DIV></DIV>>>2001,
<DIV></DIV>>> > >nearly twice the cumulative inflation rate of 10.2 percent.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >-- The average administrator's salary rose 12.3 percent while
<DIV></DIV>>>the average
<DIV></DIV>>> > >teacher's salary increased by 8.4 percent.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Cheers!
<DIV></DIV>>> > >John Harrell
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >__________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Do you Yahoo!?
<DIV></DIV>>> > >Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
<DIV></DIV>>> > >http://mailplus.yahoo.com
<DIV></DIV>>> > >
<DIV></DIV>>> > >_____________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
<DIV></DIV>>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<DIV></DIV>>> > > http://www.fsr.net
<DIV></DIV>>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>>> > >ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
<DIV></DIV>>> >
<DIV></DIV>>> >
<DIV></DIV>>> > _____________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
<DIV></DIV>>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<DIV></DIV>>> > http://www.fsr.net
<DIV></DIV>>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>>> > ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
<DIV></DIV>>> >
<DIV></DIV>>>
<DIV></DIV>>>_____________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
<DIV></DIV>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<DIV></DIV>>> http://www.fsr.net
<DIV></DIV>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Bob Hoffmann
<DIV></DIV>>820 S. Logan St.
<DIV></DIV>>Moscow, ID 83843
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>Tel: 208 883-0642
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>>_____________________________________________________
<DIV></DIV>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
<DIV></DIV>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<DIV></DIV>>http://www.fsr.net
<DIV></DIV>>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
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