[Vision2020] Christophobic

[Mike Lawyer]

Dear Om Joan,

I can see your point about not wanting to type that long title again. I
don't want to type it either.

Thank you too for keeping your discussion on a level that I can respond to.

Again, your point would be a good one if it were accurate. If a man were to
represent God by means of claims to private revelation, we might doubt that
he is representing God correctly. For instance Jim Jones represented God to
folks who followed him blindly (there are examples throughout history of
"Prophets" who claimed to be hearing from God). No one could check his facts
and no one could see his sources.

But the situation we are facing is a bit different. The Bible is either
God's word to men or it isn't. If it isn't and someone quotes from it, big
deal. But it if is and someone quotes from it, it is not themselves they are
representing, it is God.

It seems to me that folks ought to take that a little bit more seriously
than they appear to be taking it. I know of course that you can't be
bothered by this because you have started your own religious institution,
but others on the list might take life and death and everything in between a
little bit more serious than you do. For them, I'd like to reiterate
something that Doug has said a lot, "By what standard?"

What standard are you using to determine what is right in life and what is
wrong? What standard are you using to plan your life or even to live your
life? Most people have an opinion about what happens when this life is over,
but what makes them think they are right? By what standard?

Christians believe that Christ came from Heaven and returned to Heaven. He
told us what to expect after death. And thus he is our standard.

I know this is sounding like a sermon, but I'm sure that since you are a
minister yourself, you understand how easy it is to fall into that trap.

Mike Lawyer



 

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On
Behalf Of Joan Opyr
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:20 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Christophobic

Mike says:
>Actually Saint Joan
>
>You would be correct, if Doug were representing Doug. But Doug keeps
>pointing at the Bible. He keeps saying, "God says...." He keeps pointing 
>out
>that Christ is God and that Jesus died for the sins of his people . . . The

>folks on Vision 2020 who are upset with Doug, are not because he
>is Doug, but because he keeps saying, God is God and we are not.

Not content with ordination, the papacy, and sainthood, I am spurred to seek

ever greater heights of spiritual enlightenment and supernatural experience.

  Consequently, I’m now channeling for Mahatma Ghandi, Emma Goldman, and the

eighth incarnation of Lord Vishnu.  If you take issue with me, Mike Lawyer, 
then it’s because you are GhandiGoldmanVishnuphobic, and I’d rather you 
weren’t, as I don’t want to have to type that again.

It’s nice that Doug believes he’s speaking for Christ.  It’s nice that you 
believe that Doug is speaking for Christ.  It’s too bad that Christ isn’t 
around so that we can ask him if that’s what he wants, but there it is.  
When our prophets are no longer physically incarnate, well . . .  it’s like 
that scene in Monty Python’s Life of Brian.  Follow the holy sandal!  No!  
Take off one your own sandals!  No!  Follow this lamp!

You see my point.  If Wayne doesn’t accept that Doug is speaking for Christ,

then Wayne is not Christophobic.  Neither, for that matter, are any of the 
rest of us.  We're arguing with a man, not with God.  Get it?  Easy peasy 
lemon squeezy, as Nigel Powers would say.

Yeah, baby, yeah,

Om Joan

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