Fw: [Vision2020] Christophobic Response
Art Deco
deco@moscow.com
Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:30:51 -0800
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3BF32.981F6450
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Art Deco=20
To: Mike Lawyer=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Christophobic
Mike, et al
Christ Church is a cult by the working definition that social scientists =
use.
The cult leader and his minions have clearly expressed anti-egalitarian, =
sexist, homophobic, racism tainted neo-confederate, crackpot theological =
views. They are stupendously egotistical and megalomaniacal because =
they, without worldly evidence, tenaciously cling to and try to infect =
others with the belief that their world view out of millions of others =
is the only correct one.
Nick Gier's questions were not only reasonable but reflected the =
concerns of many in the commu8nity. Cult leader Wilson gave sarcastic =
answers which disguise his real views. He frequently uses this =
rhetorical tactic. Hence his answers are arrogant, insincere, and con =
artistry.
I have not meet many who hate members of the cult; many feel sorry for =
them, especially the women and children. Many people do hate the some =
of the views that cult leader Wilson espouses. I am one of them. To =
that extent I am intolerant of such views just as I am intolerant of =
murder, dope peddling, con-artistry, etc.
Anybody can claim to be a Christian, just as Mr. Wilson does. Anyone =
can put their ideas no matter how abhorrent into the words of Christ. I =
refer you to the Dictionary of American Religion to learn how many =
different Christian sects/cults there are in the U.S. alone and the =
astounding inconsistency and diversity of their beliefs.
As for Christ the man, we do not really know what he said -- one large =
group of recognized scholars, the Jesus Seminar claims that only 15% of =
the sayings attributed to him in the New Testament were actually uttered =
by him. I do not believe him a god; he referred to himself as the Son =
of Man. He did show wisdom in many ethical matters. A lot of that =
wisdom had already been uttered by others. Try reading the sayings of =
Buddha, for example.
If you wish to label me as a Christophobe, I can stop you. A more =
accurate label would be phonyophobe.
I doubt that this message will have any impact on you. I recognize the =
symptoms. Charitably it is called God struck. Clinical psychologists =
have other names for it.
Before you reply, you might read a good logic primer. Pay close =
attention to over-simplification, equivocation, non-sequitur, and ad =
hominem.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Mike Lawyer=20
To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 2:26 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Christophobic
Dear Mr. Fox,
=20
You consistently refer to Christ Church as a cult.
=20
You call their pastor a cult leader (and a coward) and their members =
cult members.
=20
You refer to the things he and his church members write as =
"anti-galitarian, sexist, homophobic, racism tainted neo-confederate, =
crackpot theological rantings." You think they are "stupendously =
egotistical and megalomaniacal" because they love you and represent what =
God says in his Word well.
=20
You refer to answers their pastor gives to stupid and inane questions =
as "arrogant, insincere, con artistry."=20
=20
I was just wondering what label you would put on it if someone were to =
write the same things about Raul Sanchez or the folks in the homosexual =
community in town.
=20
I know the answer. It would be construed as "homophobic."
=20
But what you've been writing isn't about homosexuals. You've been =
writing about Christians and their Christian pastor. If you apply these =
words to cultural bullies, you are construed as some sort of gross =
villain, but if you apply these same words to folks who are committed to =
not violently defending themselves, you're a hero.
=20
I guess you are "Christophobic" then? You hate Christ and are afraid =
of him at the same time.
=20
Thanks for listening,
=20
Mike Lawyer
=20
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3BF32.981F6450
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:o =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 =3D=20
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1276" name=3DGENERATOR><o:SmartTagType =
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20
name=3D"PlaceType"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType=20
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20
name=3D"PlaceName"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType=20
namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"=20
name=3D"place"></o:SmartTagType><!--[if !mso]>
<STYLE>st1\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)
}
</STYLE>
<![endif]-->
<STYLE>
<!--
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{mso-style-type:personal-compose;
font-family:Arial;
color:windowtext;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=20
<DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A=20
title=3Ddeco@moscow.com href=3D"mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=3Dmike_l@moscow.com =
href=3D"mailto:mike_l@moscow.com">Mike=20
Lawyer</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 10, 2003 3:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Christophobic</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Mike, et al</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>Christ Church is a cult by the =
working=20
definition that social scientists use.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial Narrow" size=3D2>The cult leader and his =
minions have=20
clearly expressed <FONT face=3D"Courier New">anti-egalitarian, sexist, =
homophobic,=20
racism tainted neo-confederate, crackpot theological views. They =
are=20
stupendously egotistical and megalomaniacal because they, without =
worldly=20
evidence, tenaciously cling to and try to infect others with the belief =
that=20
their world view out of millions of others is the only correct=20
one.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Nick Gier's questions were not =
only=20
reasonable but reflected the concerns of many in the commu8nity. =
Cult=20
leader Wilson gave sarcastic answers which disguise his real =
views. He=20
frequently uses this rhetorical tactic. Hence his answers are =
arrogant,=20
insincere, and con artistry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>I have not meet many who hate =
members of=20
the cult; many feel sorry for them, especially the women and=20
children. Many people do hate the some of the views that cult =
leader=20
Wilson espouses. I am one of them. To that extent I am intolerant =
of such=20
views just as I am intolerant of murder, dope peddling, con-artistry,=20
etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Anybody can claim to be a =
Christian, just=20
as Mr. Wilson does. Anyone can put their ideas no matter how =
abhorrent=20
into the words of Christ. I refer you to the Dictionary of =
American=20
Religion to learn how many different Christian sects/cults there are in =
the U.S.=20
alone and the astounding inconsistency and diversity of their=20
beliefs.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>As for Christ the man, we do =
not really=20
know what he said -- one large group of recognized scholars, the Jesus =
Seminar=20
claims that only 15% of the sayings attributed to him in the New =
Testament were=20
actually uttered by him. I do not believe him a god; he =
referred to=20
himself as the Son of Man. He did show wisdom in many ethical=20
matters. A lot of that wisdom had already been uttered by =
others. =20
Try reading the sayings of Buddha, for example.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>If you wish to label me as a =
Christophobe,=20
I can stop you. A more accurate label would be =
phonyophobe.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>I doubt that this message will =
have any=20
impact on you. I recognize the symptoms. Charitably it is =
called God=20
struck. Clinical psychologists have other names for =
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Before you reply, you might =
read a good=20
logic primer. Pay close attention to over-simplification, =
equivocation,=20
non-sequitur, and ad hominem.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dmike_l@moscow.com href=3D"mailto:mike_l@moscow.com">Mike =
Lawyer</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, December 10, =
2003 2:26=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
Christophobic</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=3DSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Dear Mr.=20
Fox,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">You consistently =
refer to=20
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on">Christ</st1:PlaceName>=20
<st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on">Church</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> as a=20
cult.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">You call their =
pastor a=20
cult leader (and a coward) and their members cult=20
members.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">You refer to the =
things he=20
and his church members write as =93anti-galitarian, sexist, =
homophobic, racism=20
tainted neo-confederate, crackpot theological rantings.=94 You think =
they are=20
=93stupendously egotistical and megalomaniacal=94 because they love =
you and=20
represent what God says in his Word well.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">You refer to =
answers their=20
pastor gives to stupid and inane questions as =93arrogant, insincere, =
con=20
artistry.=94 <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I was just =
wondering what=20
label you would put on it if someone were to write the same things =
about Raul=20
Sanchez or the folks in the homosexual community in=20
town.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I know the =
answer. It=20
would be construed as =93homophobic.=94<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">But what =
you=92ve been=20
writing isn=92t about homosexuals. You=92ve been writing about =
Christians and=20
their Christian pastor. If you apply these words to cultural bullies, =
you are=20
construed as some sort of gross villain, but if you apply these same =
words to=20
folks who are committed to not violently defending themselves, =
you=92re a=20
hero.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">I guess you are=20
=93Christophobic=94 then? You hate Christ and are afraid of him at the =
same=20
time.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Thanks for=20
listening,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Mike=20
Lawyer<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: =
12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML=
>
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C3BF32.981F6450--