[Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
Donovan Arnold
donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Sat, 09 Aug 2003 20:44:05 -0700
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<P>David,</P>
<P>Perhaps you can go to football game with another football and give it to the team on Defense so they stop fighting over the possession of the ball.</P></DIV>
<P>People are you scare the vejeezus out of me. Did you just read the line that, "Second false Premise: I did not refer to Jesus as a supreme being, just as a great mind." and nothing else in front of it or behind it? You didn't read the line before that I said it was not my beliefs but just a hypothetical argument to counter the premises in "Logical and Critical thinking game" between me and Mr. Harrell. </P>
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<P>That is correct Mr. Douglas, that is not my personal belief. It is game. Kind of like you buy out all the little companies in "Monopoly" and charge people unethical prices for landing on your "Park Place" with 4 Hotels. I wouldn't do it in real life. But, in a game I can. This is a game, not reality. </P>
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<P>Yes I really do believe that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior and the Son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary, died on the Cross for our sins, rose from the dead, and will come again to judge the living and the dead.</P>
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<P>However, in an earthly mind game discussing logic, this is not applicable. This belief in Christ is based only on Faith. You can't win a logical and critical thing game by saying "cuz I think it so"or "I feel it in my bones". It doesn't work. You have to use what can only be proven in the here and now.</P>
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<P>Please, think before you go on a preaching tour. Context and timing is everything. I also fail to understand why you would fail to see the logic of Jesus's teachings even if there was not God. The truth is the truth, in the spirtual and the earthly anyway.You are a silly man.</P>
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<P>Donovan J Arnold</P>
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<DIV></DIV>>From: "David Douglas" <DDOUGLAS@PACSIM.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>>To: "'Donovan Arnold'" <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>, <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
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<DIV></DIV>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
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<DIV></DIV>>Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 09:41:48 -0400
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<DIV></DIV>> Visionaries:
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<DIV></DIV>> Donovan writes:
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<DIV></DIV>> "Second false Premise: I did not refer to Jesus as a supreme being, just
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<DIV></DIV>>as a great mind."
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<DIV></DIV>> Ah, yes. The "Jesus was great teacher [mind]" argument. And almost
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<DIV></DIV>>invariably put forth by those who ignore virtually all His pronouncements
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<DIV></DIV>>and pay lip service to a few (often out of context with the whole of his
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<DIV></DIV>>teaching). If I said the things Jesus said, you would dismiss me as a
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<DIV></DIV>>nut--as well you should.
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<DIV></DIV>> How would you feel if I told my followers (speaking loosely):
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<DIV></DIV>> "All the scriptures were about me" (Jesus said this after he rose from the
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<DIV></DIV>>grave after a Roman execution).
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<DIV></DIV>> "If you've seen me you've seen God (the Father)"
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<DIV></DIV>> "Go and make disciples of all the nations" (note the intolerance for the
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<DIV></DIV>>preservation of a diversity of other practices).
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<DIV></DIV>> "The gates of hell shall not prevail against my church" (oh, the
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<DIV></DIV>>intolerance).
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<DIV></DIV>> "People will want to kill you for following me."
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<DIV></DIV>> "I am the way, the truth, and the life."
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<DIV></DIV>> I could go on. Which of those things (and all the others) do you want to
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<DIV></DIV>>take seriously? And if you pick and choose what to believe about this
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<DIV></DIV>>"great mind"--who is the greater teacher?
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<DIV></DIV>> I could go on, but CS Lewis said it better (lifted from the net with the
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<DIV></DIV>>citation):
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<DIV></DIV>> I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that
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<DIV></DIV>>people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral
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<DIV></DIV>>teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God." That is the one thing we
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<DIV></DIV>>must not say. A man who is merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus
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<DIV></DIV>>said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on
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<DIV></DIV>>the level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be
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<DIV></DIV>>the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is,
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<DIV></DIV>>the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for
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<DIV></DIV>>a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His
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<DIV></DIV>>feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing
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<DIV></DIV>>nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to
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<DIV></DIV>>us. He did not intend to. (Mere Christianity [New York: Touchstone, 1996] ).
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<DIV></DIV>>You can argue about the alternatives but the great teacher thing (in and of
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<DIV></DIV>>itself) is not valid. Consistency is cracking the whip,...again.....
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<DIV></DIV>>Cheers,
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<DIV></DIV>>David Douglas
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