[Vision2020] Get the facts right
Sunil Ramalingam
sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
Wed, 06 Aug 2003 06:48:52 -0700
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<P>If your model consists of comparing monogamous heterosexuals (who in your model do not engage in anal sex and apparently enter marriage with no prior STDs) to non-monogamous homosexual men, you're doing a poor job of getting all the facts on the table, don't you think?<BR><BR>Sunil</P></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>>From: "John Moss" <JOHNMOSS@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>To: "Donovan Arnold" <DONOVANARNOLD@HOTMAIL.COM>, <JOHNBHARRELL@YAHOO.COM>, <PETEW@COMPLETEBBS.COM>, <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM>
<DIV></DIV>>Subject: [Vision2020] Get the facts right
<DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 20:23:58 -0700
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<DIV></DIV>>Greetings, Visionaries:
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<DIV></DIV>>This message is in response to the Vision2020 conversation between Mr. Arnold and Mr. Harrell, titled "Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage."
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<DIV></DIV>>Mr. Arnold was arguing for the sanity of homosexual marriage, whereas Mr. Harrell was arguing for the sanity of traditional heterosexual marriage. I will leave the claims about the KKK, nazis and the confederate flag to Mr. Arnold and Mr. Harrell to sort out.
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<DIV></DIV>>But what I hope to do here is bring into context some of Mr. Arnold's wild "sanity" claims about the insanity of traditional marriages:
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<DIV></DIV>>MR. ARNOLD: "You [John Harrell] support a system of families that leads to teenage suicide. Sane or insane?"
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<DIV></DIV>>JOURNAL of HOMOSEXUALITY. 2002;42(4):107-17, Suicide among homosexual youth by Lebson, M., University of Maryland: "The contemporary literature on homosexual youth and suicide risk are reviewed in order to delineate the incidence, development, causes/risk factors, and effects of suicidality among homosexual youth. In comparison to heterosexual youth, homosexual youths are more likely to attempt and complete suicide. They confront more challenges in identity development and face more risk factors for suicidality. In some cases, homosexual youths might use suicidal ideation as a means of rediscovering a will to live."
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<DIV></DIV>>MR. ARNOLD: "You support a system that leads to 1.2 million abortions. Sane or insane?"
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<DIV></DIV>>It is true that no matter how long two men engage in sexual intercourse, they will never conceive a child. Thus, they have no necessity to support the abortion industry. But does anyone think that the concept of traditional marriage that Mr. Harrell was trying to present includes the use of abortion?
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<DIV></DIV>>MR. ARNOLD: "You support a system that spreads diseases that kills people slowly inch by inch. Sane or insane?"
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<DIV></DIV>>Okay, I highly doubt Mr. Arnold has gone to medical school. I have never known a faithfully married heterosexual couple to contract an STD, let alone any of the many medical conditions that face homosexual men.
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<DIV></DIV>>The real tragedy in this whole legality-of-homosexuality debate is the silence of the media towards the masses of medical literature on this subject. For those with a strong stomach, read on:
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<DIV></DIV>>JOURNAL of ADOLESCENT HEALTH CARE. 1985 Jul;6(4):278-85. Medical problems of the homosexual adolescent by Owen WF Jr.: "Four general groups of conditions may be encountered in homosexually active men: classical sexually transmitted diseases (gonorrhea, infections with Chlamydia trachomatis, syphilis, herpes simplex infections, genital warts, pubic lice, scabies); enteric diseases (infections with Shigella species, Campylobacter jejuni, Entamoeba histolytica, Giardia lamblia, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, hepatitis non-A, non-B, and cytomegalovirus); trauma (fecal incontinence, hemorrhoids, anal fissure, foreign bodies, rectosigmoid tears, allergic proctitis, penile edema, chemical sinusitis, inhaled nitrite burns, and sexual assault of the male patient); and the acquired immunodeficiency syndrome (AIDS)."
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<DIV></DIV>>PHARMACOTHERAPY. 1982 Jan-Feb;2(1):32-42. Enteric diseases of homosexual men, by Baker RW, Peppercorn MA: "Certain enteric ailments are particularly common among homosexual men. They are primarily infectious diseases and include not only such common venereal diseases as gonorrhea and syphilis but also infections not usually regarded as being sexually transmitted. Among the latter are shigellosis, salmonellosis, giardiasis, and amebiasis."
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<DIV></DIV>>MR. ARNOLD: "You support a system that oppresses masses in the society that claims to give people equal rights for all. Sane or insane?"
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<DIV></DIV>>Since when has illegalizing behavior that leads to rectitis, penile edema, anal fissure, fecal incontinence, rectosigmoid tears, and cambylobacter jejuni been oppressive?
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<DIV></DIV>>Yes, the decision to engage in anal sex is a personal choice. But those who do must realize the physical consequences they will likely suffer. And in some countries, legal consequences.
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<DIV></DIV>>Sorry if anyone was not braced for the rather grotesque medical documenation. But we're Americans. We know all about the gushy-gushy love presented on TV and in the movies. Shouldn't we have a grip on the reality of what happens deep in the bedrooms of those who are making personal choices to "love each other"?
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<DIV></DIV>>I could not just sit idly by and let this debate go on, without bringing forward the much neglected and shoved-beneath-the-covers medical literature. It seemed like the only just thing to do for this forum, and those who are actually trying to sort out the good of the Moscow community.
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<DIV></DIV>>Let's get the facts on the table. Now we can continue the debate on whether and which personal choices should be legislated.
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<DIV></DIV>>John Moss
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<DIV></DIV>>For a reference on any of the medical terms used above, please refer to the online version of the Merriam Webster Medical Dictionary at http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH?t=9276.
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<DIV></DIV>> ----- Original Message -----
<DIV></DIV>> From: Donovan Arnold
<DIV></DIV>> To: johnbharrell@yahoo.com ; petew@completebbs.com ; vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:51 PM
<DIV></DIV>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
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<DIV></DIV>> Mr. Harrell,
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<DIV></DIV>> Let us compare exactly what you define as "sane" and what I define as "sane" and we will see which is more sane.
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<DIV></DIV>> You support a system of families that leads to teenage suicide. Sane or insane?
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<DIV></DIV>> You support a system that leads to 1.2 million abortions. Sane or insane?
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<DIV></DIV>> You support a system that oppresses masses in the society that claims to give people equal rights for all. Sane or insane?
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<DIV></DIV>> You support a system that spreads diseases that kills people slowly inch by inch. Sane or insane?
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<DIV></DIV>> You support bigotry and hatred of over 15 million Americans. Sane or insane?
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<DIV></DIV>> You back the ideals and morals of the KKK, the Aryan Nations, and the Nazi Party. Sane or insane?
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<DIV></DIV>> You back the destruction of 15 million Americans and don't wish to live the way you say to live. Sane or insane?
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<DIV></DIV>> You ought to waving a flag of the Confederacy on your door step Mr. Harrell.
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<DIV></DIV>> Celebrate Diversity not Hatred!
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<DIV></DIV>> If fighting for the civil rights of law abiding, tax paying, decent Americans to be able to live in a way that doesn't harm another person is insane and perverse Mr. Harrell, then I am the most insane and perverse person you will ever meet. If fighting for the principles of the those that hate, judge, and condemn is sane and normalcy, then I guess you are far more normal and less perverse than I am. You sleep well while thousands of teens blow their brains out rather than deal with people like you. I sleep well knowing that, just maybe, I will give them a little glimer of hope that some people out in the cold cruel world do care about them, and think they should be given just a little bit of a chance at a decent fair life.
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<DIV></DIV>> Donovan J Arnold
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<DIV></DIV>> >From: John Harrell
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<DIV></DIV>> >To: Donovan Arnold , petew@completebbs.com, vision2020@moscow.com
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<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
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<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
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<DIV></DIV>> >Mr. Donovan Arnold,
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<DIV></DIV>> >Yes, someone is crazy or insane here.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Let's look at it:
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<DIV></DIV>> >Normal, traditional families OR those that are trying to promote perversity.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Normalcy vs perversity.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Normal or insane.
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<DIV></DIV>> >You want to say that everyone that doesn't "celebrate" perversity is crazy or insane.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Well, your promoting of perversity is what makes you insane, crazy, not normal.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Celebrate normalcy not insanity!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Cheers!
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<DIV></DIV>> >John Harrell
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<DIV></DIV>>
<DIV></DIV>> >From: John Harrell
<DIV></DIV>> >To: Donovan Arnold , petew@completebbs.com, vision2020@moscow.com
<DIV></DIV>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Constitutional Ban on Gay Marriage
<DIV></DIV>> >Date: Tue, 5 Aug 2003 10:58:42 -0700 (PDT)
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Mr. Donovan Arnold,
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Yes, someone is crazy or insane here.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Let's look at it:
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Normal, traditional families OR those that are trying to promote perversity.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Normalcy vs perversity.
<DIV></DIV>> >Normal or insane.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >You want to say that everyone that doesn't "celebrate" perversity is crazy or insane.
<DIV></DIV>> >
<DIV></DIV>> >Well, your promoting of perversity is what makes you insane, crazy, not normal.
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<DIV></DIV>> >Celebrate normalcy not insanity!
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<DIV></DIV>> >Cheers!
<DIV></DIV>> >John Harrell
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