[Vision2020] Doug Wilson: Gay Marriage, again?

Douglas Stambler ccm_moscow@yahoo.com
Tue, 5 Aug 2003 12:13:28 -0700 (PDT)


--0-240069571-1060110808=:87067
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Doug Wilson: Gay Marriage, again?

Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com> wrote:Visionaries,

Melynda, your last paragraph surprised me. Given what you acknowledge as 
common practice throughout history, how could we exclude a man's two wives 
(for example) from ICU unless we are willing to impose a particular 
religious view of marriage through the mechanism of civil law?

Genuinely curious.

Cordially,

Douglas


At 11:46 AM 8/5/2003 -0700, you wrote:
Against my better judgement (what there is of it), I've been thinking about 
some of Doug, Donovan, and Ralph's ideas about marriage--gay, straight, 
monogamous, polyandrous, and so on . . .

Marriage in the U.S. is obviously a civil contract which may or may not 
include a religious covenant. According to the GAO, there are over 1000 
statuatory rights and responsibilities associated with legal marriage in 
the U.S. Those are imposed and regulated by the state, not by any religious 
body, no matter what role that religious body may play in the wedding 
ceremony or the subsequent marriage. Those of us who seek the legal status 
which attends civil marriage in this country have a hard time understanding 
why the strictures of any religious body should have the power to withhold 
civil rights from some citizens. And it is really religious argument which 
stands in the way.

The argument from history that marriage has always been between one man and 
one woman founders rapidly upon fact: polygyny is the most common form of 
marital relation, anthropologically and historically speaking. As recently 
as the Middle Ages, very few people were married at all. The argument that 
the family has always been composed of a man, a woman, and their children 
has been systematically refuted by historians, anthropologists, and 
sociologists. The primary objection raised against gay marriage is really 
that some people believe that God does not authorize such unions. The 
religious beliefs of some citizens are thus permitted to determine the 
civil rights of others.

I had a church wedding, for goodness sake, and took my vows in the presence 
of God and the congregation. What I can't do is confer my Social Security 
death benefits to the woman with whom I took those vows, and to whom I have 
been married for nearly twelve years. I can't file my taxes jointly with 
her. I can't trust that if one of us dies, the other will automatically 
have custody of our children. I can't be with her in the Intensive Care 
Unit if one of her family members wants me out. I can't be sure that 
"Beloved Wife of Joan" will be carved on my tombstone, if the cemetary 
officials don't like those words.

The argument that gay marriage ought logically to open the door to polygamy 
is of purely academic interest to me. Gay marriages need not *necessarily* 
lead to polygamous marriages, and the possibility that they might is not a 
sufficient reason on its own to justify the continued exclusion of some 
citizens from the civil benefits and responsibilities of marriage based 
solely on the gender of the partners.

Melynda Huskey


Go, said the bird, for the leaves were full of children,
Hidden excitedly, containing laughter.
Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind
Cannot bear very much reality.
Burnt Norton, T.S. Eliot

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ




_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet, 
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. 
http://www.fsr.net 
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
--0-240069571-1060110808=:87067
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Doug Wilson: Gay Marriage, again?
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Douglas &lt;dougwils@moscow.com&gt;</I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid; WIDTH: 100%">Visionaries,<BR><BR>Melynda, your last paragraph surprised me. Given what you acknowledge as <BR>common practice throughout history, how could we exclude a man's two wives <BR>(for example) from ICU unless we are willing to impose a particular <BR>religious view of marriage through the mechanism of civil law?<BR><BR>Genuinely curious.<BR><BR>Cordially,<BR><BR>Douglas<BR><BR><BR>At 11:46 AM 8/5/2003 -0700, you wrote:<BR>Against my better judgement (what there is of it), I've been thinking about <BR>some of Doug, Donovan, and Ralph's ideas about marriage--gay, straight, <BR>monogamous, polyandrous, and so on . . .<BR><BR>Marriage in the U.S. is obviously a civil contract which may or may not <BR>include a religious covenant. According to the GAO, there are over 1000 <BR>statuatory rights and responsibilities associated with legal marriage in <BR>the U.S. Those are imposed and r!
 egulated
 by the state, not by any religious <BR>body, no matter what role that religious body may play in the wedding <BR>ceremony or the subsequent marriage. Those of us who seek the legal status <BR>which attends civil marriage in this country have a hard time understanding <BR>why the strictures of any religious body should have the power to withhold <BR>civil rights from some citizens. And it is really religious argument which <BR>stands in the way.<BR><BR>The argument from history that marriage has always been between one man and <BR>one woman founders rapidly upon fact: polygyny is the most common form of <BR>marital relation, anthropologically and historically speaking. As recently <BR>as the Middle Ages, very few people were married at all. The argument that <BR>the family has always been composed of a man, a woman, and their children <BR>has been systematically refuted by historians, anthropologists, and <BR>sociologists. The primary objection raised against gay marriage is!
  really
 <BR>that some people believe that God does not authorize such unions. The <BR>religious beliefs of some citizens are thus permitted to determine the <BR>civil rights of others.<BR><BR>I had a church wedding, for goodness sake, and took my vows in the presence <BR>of God and the congregation. What I can't do is confer my Social Security <BR>death benefits to the woman with whom I took those vows, and to whom I have <BR>been married for nearly twelve years. I can't file my taxes jointly with <BR>her. I can't trust that if one of us dies, the other will automatically <BR>have custody of our children. I can't be with her in the Intensive Care <BR>Unit if one of her family members wants me out. I can't be sure that <BR>"Beloved Wife of Joan" will be carved on my tombstone, if the cemetary <BR>officials don't like those words.<BR><BR>The argument that gay marriage ought logically to open the door to polygamy <BR>is of purely academic interest to me. Gay marriages need not *necess!
 arily*
 <BR>lead to polygamous marriages, and the possibility that they might is not a <BR>sufficient reason on its own to justify the continued exclusion of some <BR>citizens from the civil benefits and responsibilities of marriage based <BR>solely on the gender of the partners.<BR><BR>Melynda Huskey<BR><BR><BR>Go, said the bird, for the leaves were full of children,<BR>Hidden excitedly, containing laughter.<BR>Go, go, go, said the bird: human kind<BR>Cannot bear very much reality.<BR>Burnt Norton, T.S. Eliot<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________<BR>Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.<BR>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the <BR>communities of the Palouse since
 1994.<BR>http://www.fsr.net<BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net <BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ</BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://rd.yahoo.com/evt=1207/*http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/">SBC Yahoo! DSL</a> - Now only $29.95 per month!
--0-240069571-1060110808=:87067--