[Vision2020] Don't Blame Nader! (was Stop corporate tax dodging)

[Tim Lohrmann]

    The DEMOCRAT PARTY'S reaction to Nader's candidacy
illustrates beautifully why Ralph did the right thing
in running.
   Many of the 'CRATS responded with outrage that
Nader had stolen "THEIR" votes/voters. Any time
politicos start feeling entitled to and even assert
ownership over the votes of certain segments of the
population just by virtue of having a D or an R by
their name it's definitely time for a change. 
    That said, Ted M. your analysis of the FLA VOTE in
2000 was definitely inomplete.\
   First of all, the so called BUTTERFLY ballot was
designed NOT by some grand GOP conspiracy, but by
DEMOCRAT controlled county authorities in those
areas----Palm Beach and Broward Counties I believe. 
   Secondly, you claim that Gore won FLA by twenty
thousand votes ACCORDING TO THE INTENT OF THE VOTERS.
Well, I've got news, people screw up a lot of things
and voting is one of them. I once counted paper
ballots in a small town, and I can tell you there were
many ballots people messed up so badly you couldn't
make heads or tails of them. I don't think it can be
rationally claimed, as some Demos have, that because
someone may have paused a punch near a candidate's
corresponding punchout leaving a little bulge in that
perforated punchout(notice I'm trying to not use the
term chad) that the person intended to vote for that
candidate. This so called "intent" that you claim
favored Gore so substantially is just impossible to
prove. There are simple rules on how a valid ballot is
to be completed. Sorry, but when those easy rules are
broken we can't turn poll workers into psychologists
or ESP practitioners to go in and intuit the intention
of everyone who was unable that to make their mind and
fingers coordinate that day. 
   Also, don't forget it was GORE and his team that
sent attorneys all around the state doing their best
to make sure that as many votes as possible from the
ARMED FORCES MEMBERS were thrown out. Cheering when
they succeeded in denying that person their vote. Gore
and his staff all high and mighty and interested in
'inclusion?' I don't think so.
   AS for harrassment and intimidation during the
recount process, there were plenty of squads of Demo
led harassers too. National Demo. leaders sent their
own folks all over the state to do much the same thing
--intimidation, aggressive protest/picketers
threatening election personnel, etc were reported on
boths sides. In other words, BOTH SIDES played
political hardball. NOT just the GOP as your lingering
affinity for the Democrats seems to lead you to
believe. 
   The bottom line is that the FLA outcome was hazy
all around and because of how badly it was
mismanaged---mainly by local and again, mainly
Democratic officials--some may never be satisfied. BUT
the number of votes not counted due to being
unreadable, etc. was no higher than the national
average. 
    But the answer is not to do away with the
Electoral college. That is, unless you want nat.
politicians paying attention only to California, the
East Coast and Texas. The country is much bigger and
complicated than to take only the interests of a
handful of urban areas into consideration.  
I think the answer is to recognize that the situation
in 2000 was most likely a once in a lifetime event. It
hadn't happened for around one hundred years and it
probably won't happen again. But even with this
situation, Gore had only a plurality of the votes by a
few, NOT a majority. That was due to the fact that
Nader and others took a few percentage points off the
top. 
  Probably instead of harping on all this history we
should be asking the really serious question and that
is why the real majority party in this country is the
NONVOTER PARTY, those who don't even bother to vote.
We have only fifty percent turnout of registered
voters. Of those qualified only about fifty percent
bother to register. In other words the government is,
for whatever reason, functioning without the "consent"
of a vast majority of the voters. Anyone who has
studied Government or Political science will tell you
that that's not a healthy situation.
    And DESPITE ALL THAT,  WE'VE GOT DEMOCRATS AND
REPUBLICANS TELLING THOSE WHO WOULD WORK HARD TO FORM
THIRD PARTIES TO OFFER THESE VOTERS MORE OF A CHOICE,
THAT THEY SOMEHOW DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO TAKE 'THEIR'
VOTERS?
 Talk about arrogance. 
Nader and other third party folk are doing more to
include more of the electorate in the election process
than the current Republicrats will ever dream of. In
fact the best that the Demicans can come up with is
spending millions of dollars on NEGATIVE ADS. Ads that
the party pros know for a fact will not only distort
the issues but are designed to actually suppress the
voter turnouit. In other words the two national
parties thrive on apathy and disillusionment. On the
destruction of the Democratic participatory process. 

And yet---and yet---even though fully conscious of
what the results of their actions, these two party
system types have the gall to condemn someone like
Nader who is attempting to revive and revitalize the
very process that supports them even as they destroy
it. 
 









--- Ted Moffett <ted_moffett@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike and ALL:
> 
> "Prince Ralph" and "King George?"  This sort of
> language from you, Mike, 
> appears to verge on an attitude of cynical
> "labeling" of people, that I 
> thought you opposed?  Mike's post on Nader is
> attached at the bottom.
> 
> Nader tried to create a real alternative in American
> politics.  For this I 
> think he should be praised, and for all the hard
> work he has done over the 
> years for numerous causes.  Do I think that there
> are moral complexities in 
> his 2000 Presidential candidacy that are troubling
> given that he hurt Gore's 
> chances?  Yes.
> 
> But the voters put Bush into office, along with the
> astonishing unlawful 
> conduct in the election in Florida 2000 and the US
> Supreme court's shameful 
> intervention, not Nader.  Gore really did win the
> election, both the popular 
> vote and the electoral college: some very sober and
> factual analyses of the 
> 2000 Gore v. Bush vote in Florida indicate that
> according to the intent of 
> the voters who actually went to the polls, Gore won
> by about 20,000 votes in 
> that state.
> 
> A part of the US Democracy died on that day.
> 
> I have a tomes worth of research on the Gore v. Bush
> 2000 election in 
> Florida:
> 
> The illegal voter registration purge list slanted
> towards minority voters, 
> the Martin and Seminole County Republican led
> felonious illegal tampering 
> with absentee ballots, the illegal butterfly ballot
> in Palm Beach County, 
> the out of state Republican mob sent in by House
> Republican Tom Delay to 
> harass the court ordered recount in Miami-Dade
> County inside the very 
> building where the recount was being done, the fact
> that the first lawfully 
> mandated automatic recount was NEVER DONE in several
> counties in Florida (in 
> fact none of the lawfully mandated recounts was ever
> completed!), the 
> cutting of the budget to run the election in Florida
> when Secretary of State 
> Katherine Harris's led branch of the Florida
> government overseeing elections 
> was warned a large voter turnout was in store,
> largely due to minority 
> voters (guess who they favored?), voting machinery
> in poor heavily minority 
> areas being in disrepair, and so forth...
> 
> These numerous instances of illegal and undemocratic
> conduct in the manner 
> that election was carried out should be the target
> of peoples wrath, NOT 
> Ralph Nader!
> 
> Ted
> 
> Mike Curley curley@turbonet.com
> Thu, 17 Apr 2003 09:13:54 -0700
> 
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>
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> 
> <color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>What a paradox,
> or is it simply hypocr=
> isy?  He rails against
> that which he helped most to perpetuate.  All good
> conservatives and Republicans should attend this
> meeting
> and praise Prince Ralph for the invaluable
> assistance he
> gave King George by insisting that there was really
> no
> difference between him and Al Gore.  There are
> certainly
> many reasons that Al Gore is not the President, but
> Prince
> Ralph can claim a primary role (no pun intended). 
> And
> while you are there, thank him for the war in Iraq
> and
> wherever else the USA may next invade in the name of
> weapons of mass destruction and terrorism.
> 
> Mike Curley
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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