[Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Tom Hansen
thansen@moscow.com
Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:28:17 -0700
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MessageGreetings Visionaires -
There is a statistical breakdown of the 58,178 casualties of the Vietnam War
at:
http://thewall-usa.com/stats/index.html
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
Behalf Of Dale Courtney
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 10:26 PM
To: 'vision2020'
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Ms. Huskey. You said that "a rich mix of non-whites in the frontlines of
combat."
Can you tell me what the death rate has been for minorities on the front
line?
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Melynda Huskey
Sent: Sunday, 06 April, 2003 21:04
To: Dale Courtney; vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Dale Courtney suspects that I'd be either surprised or in denial if I
knew what the demographics of the U.S. Armed Forces are. I'm not sure why
he thinks so, but in the interests of extending the boundaries of knowledge,
I took a quick look at "Population Representation in the Military Service
Fiscal Year 2002," a darned compelling little read by the Department of
Defense.
Blacks represent 20% of total enlisted personnel (approximately 6% more
than their representation in the general population)--23% in the Army, and
less in other branches. They also represent 8% of active duty officers.
Latinos are under-represented in all branches of the services as
enlisted personnel, except in the Marine Corps, where they have reached
parity with the general population.
"Other," which includes multi-racial, Asian, Native American, and
Pacific Islanders, are slightly over-represented in enlisted populations.
16% of all officers are non-white across all branches of the service.
I didn't bother to get the details on the drastic under-representation
of women in all branches at all levels . . . but you can find it for
yourself very easily by googling the title of the report.
Not exactly reeling with the shock of it all,
Melynda Huskey
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Courtney
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:09 PM
To: 'vision2020'
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Ms. Huskey,
Would you care to provide the statistical breakdown of ethnic
minorities in the military? Then the ethnic breakdown of those who have been
killed so far?
I think you'd be surprised, or in denial.
Best,
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On Behalf Of Melynda Huskey
Sent: Saturday, 05 April, 2003 22:44
To: John Harrell; vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Dear John,
I shouldn't bother, but the information you quote below is only part
of the story. Points-based admissions systems like Michigan's also award
points for being the child of alumni (at historically white schools, of
course, these points go most often to whites), for geographic diversity, for
being a first-generation college student, for coming from a less-represented
area of the state (in Michigan, that's the Upper Peninsula), for having
specialized athletic ability, for being a veteran, and for all kinds of
other things that provide a good mix of students. At some schools--although
not, I believe, at Michigan--students who don't need financial aid receive
separate consideration . . . a form of affirmative action for the wealthy.
Diversity at its finest, it seems, is a rich mix of non-whites in
the frontlines of combat, but not in the front rows of college classrooms.
Melynda Huskey
----- Original Message -----
From: John Harrell
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 7:09 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
{see below for article and URL.. I thought this article was
interesting}
Excerpt:
The facts in the Michigan undergraduate case are easily
understood:
On a 150-point admissions scale, an applicant gets points for
various
achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12 points
for a
perfect SAT score, 80 points for a 4.0 grade-point average--and
20 points
for being black, Hispanic or American Indian. White or Asian
students with
lower than a 950 SAT score are automatically rejected; but if
you are black,
Hispanic or Indian the rejection score is less than 850.
And if race-based preferences are constitutional in university
admissions,
may there be race-based preferences in other areas--for job
applications,
juror selection or the election of state legislators?
>From Bad to Diverse - The Supreme Court debates whether the 14th
Amendment means what it
says
WSJ ^ | April 4, 2003 | PETE DU PONT
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=110003289
Is racial discrimination in the selection of applicants to attend
colleges and law
schools acceptable--and constitutional--if its purpose is
to achieve diversity in the student body?
That was the question argued before the Supreme Court Tuesday. The
University of Michigan
says yes, the social goal of diversity is
paramount. The qualified students rejected because of their race
say no, such procedures
violate their rights under the 14th
Amendment, which guarantees "equal protection of the laws," and
Title VI of the 1964
Civil Rights Act, which makes discrimination
"on the ground of race, color, or national origin" illegal for any
institution receiving
federal funds.
The facts in the Michigan undergraduate case are easily
understood: On a 150-point
admissions scale, an applicant gets points for
various achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12
points for a perfect SAT
score, 80 points for a 4.0 grade-point
average--and 20 points for being black, Hispanic or American
Indian. White or Asian
students with lower than a 950 SAT score are
automatically rejected; but if you are black, Hispanic or Indian
the rejection score is
less than 850. The law-school preference program
is different but practices the same race-based discrimination in
favor of certain
minority applicants.
There is an old law school adage: When you have the law on your
side, argue the law; when
you have the facts, argue the facts; and
when you have neither the law nor the facts, pound on the table
and scream like hell.
There was a polite bit of the latter in the
courtroom on Tuesday.
Maureen Mahoney, arguing the law school's case, said that of the
"2,500 students who are
rejected each year, probably only 80 of
them . . . would have gotten an offer of admission from Michigan
under a race-blind
system." That, she concluded, "is a very small
and diffuse burden" relative to the benefits of the racial
preference program.
To which Justice Antonin Scalia replied: "I don't know any other
area where we . . .
decide the case by saying, well, there are very
few people being treated unconstitutionally."
In the undergraduate case, there is a two-track admissions system,
one for selected
minorities, and the other for everyone else.
Solicitor General Theodore Olson, weighing in on the plaintiffs'
side, noted that "the
University of Michigan admissions program has
created a separate path and a separate door for preferred
minorities. . . . If they meet
basic qualifications, their path is always clear and
their door is always open. . . . Nonpreferred groups face rigorous
competition to get
through the other door."
Indeed, the university's lawyer, when pressed to identify a single
minimally qualified
minority member who got the 20-point racial
bonus and was rejected for admission, admitted, "I can't give you
one."
All of which leads to deeper questions. If there are to be
race-based preferences, who
gets to pick the minorities that get the
preference? In the 1978 Bakke case, which involved University of
California medical
students, Asian-Americans were included in the
preference class; at Michigan they are not. The 14th Amendment
would not seem to give
state university admissions officials the
power to make such decisions, but that is what Michigan demands.
And if race-based preferences are constitutional in university
admissions, may there be
race-based preferences in other areas--for job
applications, juror selection or the election of state
legislators?
{..snip.. see URL for complete article..}
__________________________________________________
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<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN class=3D950292113-07042003>Greetings =
Visionaires=20
-</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN=20
class=3D950292113-07042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN class=3D950292113-07042003>There is a =
statistical=20
breakdown of the 58,178 casualties of the Vietnam War =
at:</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN=20
class=3D950292113-07042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN class=3D950292113-07042003><A=20
href=3D"http://thewall-usa.com/stats/index.html">http://thewall-usa.com/s=
tats/index.html</A></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN=20
class=3D950292113-07042003></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN class=3D950292113-07042003>Tom=20
Hansen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3Dverdana><SPAN class=3D950292113-07042003>Moscow,=20
Idaho</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]<B>On =
Behalf=20
Of </B>Dale Courtney<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 06, 2003 10:26=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'vision2020'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] =
Isn't This=20
Racist?<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D865392405-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>Ms. Huskey. =
You said=20
that "a rich mix of non-whites in the frontlines of combat."=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D865392405-07042003><FONT =
face=3Dverdana></FONT><BR>Can you tell=20
me what the death rate has been for minorities on the front line?=20
</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Melynda Huskey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, 06 April, 2003=20
21:04<BR><B>To:</B> Dale Courtney; vision2020<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Dale Courtney suspects that I'd be either surprised or in =
denial if I=20
knew what the demographics of the U.S. Armed Forces are. I'm =
not sure=20
why he thinks so, but in the interests of extending the boundaries =
of=20
knowledge, I took a quick look at "Population Representation in the =
Military=20
Service Fiscal Year 2002," a darned compelling little read by the =
Department=20
of Defense.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Blacks represent 20% of total enlisted personnel (approximately =
6% more=20
than their representation in the general population)--23% in the =
Army, and=20
less in other branches. They also represent 8% of active duty=20
officers.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Latinos are under-represented in all branches of the services =
as=20
enlisted personnel, except in the Marine Corps, where they have =
reached=20
parity with the general population.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Other," which includes multi-racial, Asian, Native =
American, and=20
Pacific Islanders, are slightly over-represented in enlisted=20
populations.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>16% of all officers are non-white across all branches of =
the=20
service.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I didn't bother to get the details on the drastic =
under-representation=20
of women in all branches at all levels . . . but you can find it for =
yourself very easily by googling the title of the report.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Not exactly reeling with the shock of it all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Melynda Huskey</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt =
Arial"><B>From:</B>=20
Dale Courtney</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 06, =
2003 6:09=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> 'vision2020'</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] =
Isn't This=20
Racist?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>Ms. =
Huskey,=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>Would =
you care to=20
provide the statistical breakdown of ethnic minorities in the =
military?=20
Then the ethnic breakdown of those who have been killed so far?=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>I think =
you'd be=20
surprised, or in denial. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT=20
face=3Dverdana>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003>Dale</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
lang=3Den-us><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Melynda Huskey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 05 April, =
2003=20
22:44<BR><B>To:</B> John Harrell; vision2020<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
[Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Dear John,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I shouldn't bother, but the information you quote below is =
only=20
part of the story. Points-based admissions systems like =
Michigan's=20
also award points for being the child of alumni (at historically =
white=20
schools, of course, these points go most often to whites), for=20
geographic diversity, for being a first-generation college =
student, for=20
coming from a less-represented area of the state (in Michigan, =
that's=20
the Upper Peninsula), for having specialized athletic ability, =
for being=20
a veteran, and for all kinds of other things that provide a good =
mix of=20
students. At some schools--although not, I believe, at=20
Michigan--students who don't need financial aid receive separate =
consideration . . . a form of affirmative action for the =
wealthy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Diversity at its finest, it seems, is a rich mix =
of=20
non-whites in the frontlines of combat, but not in the front =
rows of=20
college classrooms.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Melynda Huskey</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message =
-----</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; COLOR: black; FONT: 10pt =
Arial"><B>From:</B>=20
John Harrell</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April =
05, 2003=20
7:09 PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> vision2020</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
Isn't This=20
Racist?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>{see below for article and URL.. I thought =
this=20
article was interesting}<BR><BR>Excerpt:<BR><BR> The =
facts in=20
the Michigan undergraduate case are easily understood: =
<BR><BR> =20
On a 150-point admissions scale, an applicant gets points for =
various=20
<BR> achievements: three points for an outstanding =
essay, 12=20
points for a <BR> perfect SAT score, 80 points for a 4.0 =
grade-point average--and 20 points <BR> for being black, =
Hispanic or American Indian. White or Asian students with =
<BR> =20
lower than a 950 SAT score are automatically rejected; but if =
you are=20
black, <BR> Hispanic or Indian the rejection score is =
less than=20
850.<BR><BR> And if race-based preferences are =
constitutional in=20
university admissions, <BR> may there be race-based =
preferences=20
in other areas--for job applications, <BR> juror =
selection or=20
the election of state legislators? <BR><BR><BR>>From Bad to =
Diverse=20
- The Supreme Court debates whether the 14th Amendment means =
what=20
it<BR>says<BR><BR>WSJ ^ | April 4, 2003 | PETE DU=20
=
PONT<BR>http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=3D110003289<=
BR><BR>Is=20
racial discrimination in the selection of applicants to attend =
colleges and law<BR>schools acceptable--and constitutional--if =
its=20
purpose is<BR>to achieve diversity in the student body? =
<BR><BR>That=20
was the question argued before the Supreme Court Tuesday. The=20
University of Michigan<BR>says yes, the social goal of =
diversity=20
is<BR>paramount. The qualified students rejected because of =
their race=20
say no, such procedures<BR>violate their rights under the=20
14th<BR>Amendment, which guarantees "equal protection of the =
laws,"=20
and Title VI of the 1964<BR>Civil Rights Act, which makes=20
discrimination<BR>"on the ground of race, color, or national =
origin"=20
illegal for any institution receiving<BR>federal funds. =
<BR><BR>The=20
facts in the Michigan undergraduate case are easily =
understood: On a=20
150-point<BR>admissions scale, an applicant gets points =
for<BR>various=20
achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12 points =
for a=20
perfect SAT<BR>score, 80 points for a 4.0 =
grade-point<BR>average--and=20
20 points for being black, Hispanic or American Indian. White =
or=20
Asian<BR>students with lower than a 950 SAT score =
are<BR>automatically=20
rejected; but if you are black, Hispanic or Indian the =
rejection score=20
is<BR>less than 850. The law-school preference program<BR>is =
different=20
but practices the same race-based discrimination in favor of=20
certain<BR>minority applicants. <BR><BR>There is an old law =
school=20
adage: When you have the law on your side, argue the law; =
when<BR>you=20
have the facts, argue the facts; and<BR>when you have neither =
the law=20
nor the facts, pound on the table and scream like =
hell.<BR>There was a=20
polite bit of the latter in the<BR>courtroom on=20
Tuesday.<BR><BR>Maureen Mahoney, arguing the law school's =
case, said=20
that of the "2,500 students who are<BR>rejected each year, =
probably=20
only 80 of<BR>them . . . would have gotten an offer of =
admission from=20
Michigan under a race-blind<BR>system." That, she concluded, =
"is a=20
very small<BR>and diffuse burden" relative to the benefits of =
the=20
racial preference program. <BR><BR>To which Justice Antonin =
Scalia=20
replied: "I don't know any other area where we . . .<BR>decide =
the=20
case by saying, well, there are very<BR>few people being =
treated=20
unconstitutionally." <BR><BR>In the undergraduate case, there =
is a=20
two-track admissions system, one for selected<BR>minorities, =
and the=20
other for everyone else.<BR>Solicitor General Theodore Olson, =
weighing=20
in on the plaintiffs' side, noted that "the<BR>University of =
Michigan=20
admissions program has<BR>created a separate path and a =
separate door=20
for preferred minorities. . . . If they meet<BR>basic =
qualifications,=20
their path is always clear and<BR>their door is always open. . =
. .=20
Nonpreferred groups face rigorous competition to =
get<BR>through the=20
other door." <BR><BR>Indeed, the university's lawyer, when =
pressed to=20
identify a single minimally qualified<BR>minority member who =
got the=20
20-point racial<BR>bonus and was rejected for admission, =
admitted, "I=20
can't give you one." <BR><BR>All of which leads to deeper =
questions.=20
If there are to be race-based preferences, who<BR>gets to pick =
the=20
minorities that get the<BR>preference? In the 1978 Bakke case, =
which=20
involved University of California medical<BR>students, =
Asian-Americans=20
were included in the<BR>preference class; at Michigan they are =
not.=20
The 14th Amendment would not seem to give<BR>state university=20
admissions officials the<BR>power to make such decisions, but =
that is=20
what Michigan demands.<BR><BR>And if race-based preferences =
are=20
constitutional in university admissions, may there =
be<BR>race-based=20
preferences in other areas--for job<BR>applications, juror =
selection=20
or the election of state legislators? <BR><BR>{..snip.. see =
URL for=20
complete=20
=
article..}<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>D=
o=20
you Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, =
forms,=20
and=20
=
more<BR>http://tax.yahoo.com<BR><BR>_____________________________________=
________________<BR>List=20
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving =
the=20
communities of the Palouse since 1994. =20
=
<BR> &nb=
sp; =20
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bsp;=20
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