[Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Dale Courtney
dale@courtneys.us
Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:25:50 -0700
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Ms. Huskey. You said that "a rich mix of non-whites in the frontlines of
combat."=20
Can you tell me what the death rate has been for minorities on the front
line?=20
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of Melynda Huskey
Sent: Sunday, 06 April, 2003 21:04
To: Dale Courtney; vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Dale Courtney suspects that I'd be either surprised or in denial if I =
knew
what the demographics of the U.S. Armed Forces are. I'm not sure why he
thinks so, but in the interests of extending the boundaries of =
knowledge, I
took a quick look at "Population Representation in the Military Service
Fiscal Year 2002," a darned compelling little read by the Department of
Defense.
=20
Blacks represent 20% of total enlisted personnel (approximately 6% more =
than
their representation in the general population)--23% in the Army, and =
less
in other branches. They also represent 8% of active duty officers.
=20
Latinos are under-represented in all branches of the services as =
enlisted
personnel, except in the Marine Corps, where they have reached parity =
with
the general population.
=20
"Other," which includes multi-racial, Asian, Native American, and =
Pacific
Islanders, are slightly over-represented in enlisted populations.
=20
16% of all officers are non-white across all branches of the service.
=20
I didn't bother to get the details on the drastic under-representation =
of
women in all branches at all levels . . . but you can find it for =
yourself
very easily by googling the title of the report.
=20
Not exactly reeling with the shock of it all,
=20
Melynda Huskey
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: Dale Courtney
Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:09 PM
To: 'vision2020'
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
=20
Ms. Huskey,=20
=20
Would you care to provide the statistical breakdown of ethnic minorities =
in
the military? Then the ethnic breakdown of those who have been killed so
far?=20
=20
I think you'd be surprised, or in denial.=20
=20
Best,
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of Melynda Huskey
Sent: Saturday, 05 April, 2003 22:44
To: John Harrell; vision2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
Dear John,
=20
I shouldn't bother, but the information you quote below is only part of =
the
story. Points-based admissions systems like Michigan's also award =
points
for being the child of alumni (at historically white schools, of course,
these points go most often to whites), for geographic diversity, for =
being a
first-generation college student, for coming from a less-represented =
area of
the state (in Michigan, that's the Upper Peninsula), for having =
specialized
athletic ability, for being a veteran, and for all kinds of other things
that provide a good mix of students. At some schools--although not, I
believe, at Michigan--students who don't need financial aid receive =
separate
consideration . . . a form of affirmative action for the wealthy.
=20
Diversity at its finest, it seems, is a rich mix of non-whites in the
frontlines of combat, but not in the front rows of college classrooms.
=20
Melynda Huskey
=20
----- Original Message -----
From: John Harrell
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 7:09 PM
To: vision2020
Subject: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
=20
{see below for article and URL.. I thought this article was interesting}
Excerpt:
The facts in the Michigan undergraduate case are easily understood:=20
On a 150-point admissions scale, an applicant gets points for various=20
achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12 points for a=20
perfect SAT score, 80 points for a 4.0 grade-point average--and 20 =
points=20
for being black, Hispanic or American Indian. White or Asian students =
with
lower than a 950 SAT score are automatically rejected; but if you are
black,=20
Hispanic or Indian the rejection score is less than 850.
And if race-based preferences are constitutional in university =
admissions,
may there be race-based preferences in other areas--for job =
applications,=20
juror selection or the election of state legislators?=20
>From Bad to Diverse - The Supreme Court debates whether the 14th =
Amendment
means what it
says
WSJ ^ | April 4, 2003 | PETE DU PONT
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=3D110003289
Is racial discrimination in the selection of applicants to attend =
colleges
and law
schools acceptable--and constitutional--if its purpose is
to achieve diversity in the student body?=20
That was the question argued before the Supreme Court Tuesday. The
University of Michigan
says yes, the social goal of diversity is
paramount. The qualified students rejected because of their race say no,
such procedures
violate their rights under the 14th
Amendment, which guarantees "equal protection of the laws," and Title VI =
of
the 1964
Civil Rights Act, which makes discrimination
"on the ground of race, color, or national origin" illegal for any
institution receiving
federal funds.=20
The facts in the Michigan undergraduate case are easily understood: On a
150-point
admissions scale, an applicant gets points for
various achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12 points =
for a
perfect SAT
score, 80 points for a 4.0 grade-point
average--and 20 points for being black, Hispanic or American Indian. =
White
or Asian
students with lower than a 950 SAT score are
automatically rejected; but if you are black, Hispanic or Indian the
rejection score is
less than 850. The law-school preference program
is different but practices the same race-based discrimination in favor =
of
certain
minority applicants.=20
There is an old law school adage: When you have the law on your side, =
argue
the law; when
you have the facts, argue the facts; and
when you have neither the law nor the facts, pound on the table and =
scream
like hell.
There was a polite bit of the latter in the
courtroom on Tuesday.
Maureen Mahoney, arguing the law school's case, said that of the "2,500
students who are
rejected each year, probably only 80 of
them . . . would have gotten an offer of admission from Michigan under a
race-blind
system." That, she concluded, "is a very small
and diffuse burden" relative to the benefits of the racial preference
program.=20
To which Justice Antonin Scalia replied: "I don't know any other area =
where
we . . .
decide the case by saying, well, there are very
few people being treated unconstitutionally."=20
In the undergraduate case, there is a two-track admissions system, one =
for
selected
minorities, and the other for everyone else.
Solicitor General Theodore Olson, weighing in on the plaintiffs' side, =
noted
that "the
University of Michigan admissions program has
created a separate path and a separate door for preferred minorities. . =
. .
If they meet
basic qualifications, their path is always clear and
their door is always open. . . . Nonpreferred groups face rigorous
competition to get
through the other door."=20
Indeed, the university's lawyer, when pressed to identify a single =
minimally
qualified
minority member who got the 20-point racial
bonus and was rejected for admission, admitted, "I can't give you one."=20
All of which leads to deeper questions. If there are to be race-based
preferences, who
gets to pick the minorities that get the
preference? In the 1978 Bakke case, which involved University of =
California
medical
students, Asian-Americans were included in the
preference class; at Michigan they are not. The 14th Amendment would not
seem to give
state university admissions officials the
power to make such decisions, but that is what Michigan demands.
And if race-based preferences are constitutional in university =
admissions,
may there be
race-based preferences in other areas--for job
applications, juror selection or the election of state legislators?=20
{..snip.. see URL for complete article..}
__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com
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List services made available by First Step Internet,=20
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mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D865392405-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>Ms. Huskey. =
You said that=20
"a rich mix of non-whites in the frontlines of combat."=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D865392405-07042003><FONT =
face=3Dverdana></FONT><BR>Can you tell=20
me what the death rate has been for minorities on the front line? =
</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] <B>On =
Behalf=20
Of </B>Melynda Huskey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, 06 April, 2003=20
21:04<BR><B>To:</B> Dale Courtney; vision2020<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:=20
[Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Dale Courtney suspects that I'd be either surprised or in denial =
if I=20
knew what the demographics of the U.S. Armed Forces are. I'm not =
sure=20
why he thinks so, but in the interests of extending the boundaries of=20
knowledge, I took a quick look at "Population Representation in the =
Military=20
Service Fiscal Year 2002," a darned compelling little read by the =
Department=20
of Defense.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Blacks represent 20% of total enlisted personnel (approximately =
6% more=20
than their representation in the general population)--23% in the Army, =
and=20
less in other branches. They also represent 8% of active duty=20
officers.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Latinos are under-represented in all branches of the services as =
enlisted=20
personnel, except in the Marine Corps, where they have reached parity =
with the=20
general population.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Other," which includes multi-racial, Asian, Native =
American, and=20
Pacific Islanders, are slightly over-represented in enlisted=20
populations.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>16% of all officers are non-white across all branches of the =
service.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I didn't bother to get the details on the drastic =
under-representation of=20
women in all branches at all levels . . . but you can find it for=20
yourself very easily by googling the title of the report.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> Not exactly reeling with the shock of it all,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Melynda Huskey</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message -----</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
Dale Courtney</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 06, 2003 =
6:09=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> 'vision2020'</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] =
Isn't This=20
Racist?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1141" name=3DGENERATOR>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>Ms. =
Huskey,=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>Would you =
care to=20
provide the statistical breakdown of ethnic minorities in the =
military? Then=20
the ethnic breakdown of those who have been killed so far?=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT face=3Dverdana>I think =
you'd be=20
surprised, or in denial. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003><FONT=20
face=3Dverdana>Best,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D392243900-07042003>Dale</SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Melynda Huskey<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, 05 April, =
2003=20
22:44<BR><B>To:</B> John Harrell; vision2020<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
Re:=20
[Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>Dear John,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I shouldn't bother, but the information you quote below is =
only part=20
of the story. Points-based admissions systems like =
Michigan's also=20
award points for being the child of alumni (at historically white =
schools,=20
of course, these points go most often to whites), for geographic=20
diversity, for being a first-generation college student, for =
coming from a=20
less-represented area of the state (in Michigan, that's the Upper=20
Peninsula), for having specialized athletic ability, for being a =
veteran,=20
and for all kinds of other things that provide a good mix of=20
students. At some schools--although not, I believe, at=20
Michigan--students who don't need financial aid receive separate=20
consideration . . . a form of affirmative action for the =
wealthy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Diversity at its finest, it seems, is a rich mix of =
non-whites in the frontlines of combat, but not in the front rows =
of=20
college classrooms.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Melynda Huskey</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial">----- Original Message =
-----</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt Arial; COLOR: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
John Harrell</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 05, =
2003 7:09=20
PM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>To:</B> vision2020</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt Arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
Isn't This=20
Racist?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>{see below for article and URL.. I thought this =
article=20
was interesting}<BR><BR>Excerpt:<BR><BR> The facts in the =
Michigan=20
undergraduate case are easily understood: <BR><BR> On a =
150-point=20
admissions scale, an applicant gets points for various =
<BR> =20
achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12 points =
for a=20
<BR> perfect SAT score, 80 points for a 4.0 grade-point=20
average--and 20 points <BR> for being black, Hispanic or =
American=20
Indian. White or Asian students with <BR> lower than a 950 =
SAT=20
score are automatically rejected; but if you are black, =
<BR> =20
Hispanic or Indian the rejection score is less than =
850.<BR><BR> =20
And if race-based preferences are constitutional in university=20
admissions, <BR> may there be race-based preferences in =
other=20
areas--for job applications, <BR> juror selection or the =
election=20
of state legislators? <BR><BR><BR>>From Bad to Diverse - The =
Supreme=20
Court debates whether the 14th Amendment means what=20
it<BR>says<BR><BR>WSJ ^ | April 4, 2003 | PETE DU=20
=
PONT<BR>http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=3D110003289<=
BR><BR>Is=20
racial discrimination in the selection of applicants to attend =
colleges=20
and law<BR>schools acceptable--and constitutional--if its =
purpose=20
is<BR>to achieve diversity in the student body? <BR><BR>That was =
the=20
question argued before the Supreme Court Tuesday. The University =
of=20
Michigan<BR>says yes, the social goal of diversity =
is<BR>paramount. The=20
qualified students rejected because of their race say no, such=20
procedures<BR>violate their rights under the 14th<BR>Amendment, =
which=20
guarantees "equal protection of the laws," and Title VI of the=20
1964<BR>Civil Rights Act, which makes discrimination<BR>"on the =
ground=20
of race, color, or national origin" illegal for any institution=20
receiving<BR>federal funds. <BR><BR>The facts in the Michigan=20
undergraduate case are easily understood: On a =
150-point<BR>admissions=20
scale, an applicant gets points for<BR>various achievements: =
three=20
points for an outstanding essay, 12 points for a perfect =
SAT<BR>score,=20
80 points for a 4.0 grade-point<BR>average--and 20 points for =
being=20
black, Hispanic or American Indian. White or Asian<BR>students =
with=20
lower than a 950 SAT score are<BR>automatically rejected; but if =
you are=20
black, Hispanic or Indian the rejection score is<BR>less than =
850. The=20
law-school preference program<BR>is different but practices the =
same=20
race-based discrimination in favor of certain<BR>minority =
applicants.=20
<BR><BR>There is an old law school adage: When you have the law =
on your=20
side, argue the law; when<BR>you have the facts, argue the =
facts;=20
and<BR>when you have neither the law nor the facts, pound on the =
table=20
and scream like hell.<BR>There was a polite bit of the latter in =
the<BR>courtroom on Tuesday.<BR><BR>Maureen Mahoney, arguing the =
law=20
school's case, said that of the "2,500 students who =
are<BR>rejected each=20
year, probably only 80 of<BR>them . . . would have gotten an =
offer of=20
admission from Michigan under a race-blind<BR>system." That, she =
concluded, "is a very small<BR>and diffuse burden" relative to =
the=20
benefits of the racial preference program. <BR><BR>To which =
Justice=20
Antonin Scalia replied: "I don't know any other area where we . =
.=20
.<BR>decide the case by saying, well, there are very<BR>few =
people being=20
treated unconstitutionally." <BR><BR>In the undergraduate case, =
there is=20
a two-track admissions system, one for selected<BR>minorities, =
and the=20
other for everyone else.<BR>Solicitor General Theodore Olson, =
weighing=20
in on the plaintiffs' side, noted that "the<BR>University of =
Michigan=20
admissions program has<BR>created a separate path and a separate =
door=20
for preferred minorities. . . . If they meet<BR>basic =
qualifications,=20
their path is always clear and<BR>their door is always open. . . =
.=20
Nonpreferred groups face rigorous competition to get<BR>through =
the=20
other door." <BR><BR>Indeed, the university's lawyer, when =
pressed to=20
identify a single minimally qualified<BR>minority member who got =
the=20
20-point racial<BR>bonus and was rejected for admission, =
admitted, "I=20
can't give you one." <BR><BR>All of which leads to deeper =
questions. If=20
there are to be race-based preferences, who<BR>gets to pick the=20
minorities that get the<BR>preference? In the 1978 Bakke case, =
which=20
involved University of California medical<BR>students, =
Asian-Americans=20
were included in the<BR>preference class; at Michigan they are =
not. The=20
14th Amendment would not seem to give<BR>state university =
admissions=20
officials the<BR>power to make such decisions, but that is what =
Michigan=20
demands.<BR><BR>And if race-based preferences are constitutional =
in=20
university admissions, may there be<BR>race-based preferences in =
other=20
areas--for job<BR>applications, juror selection or the election =
of state=20
legislators? <BR><BR>{..snip.. see URL for complete=20
=
article..}<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>D=
o=20
you Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, =
forms, and=20
=
more<BR>http://tax.yahoo.com<BR><BR>_____________________________________=
________________<BR>List=20
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the=20
communities of the Palouse since 1994. =20
=
<BR> &nb=
sp; =20
=
http://www.fsr.net &=
nbsp; &n=
bsp;=20
<BR> =20
=
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