[RPPTL Leasing Committee] Fines and Fees

Thu Jan 28 06:41:00 PST 2021

Thank you Cary,

I agree. If they are truly being charged by a third party, this should be paid for by the tenant. The more “petty” ones are justified by them saying they need to do “extra work” and also they feel the fine or fee will prevent the tenant from doing the act that triggers the fine or fee. 

The extremely bothersome ones right now are the “notice posting fees”  where they are charging the tenants for either their time or the process server’s charge for posting/delivering a Three Day Notice and also their “certified mail fee” where they are charging the tenant the postage for the Notice of Intention to Impose Claim on Security Deposit.

I just have this uneasy feeling about charging the tenants for something that the landlord is legally obligated by law to provide to or send to the tenant but neither notice would be necessary if the tenant paid the rent on time or did not owe any money on the way out.

My partner Brian Wolk brought up a due process argument. A fine or fee right off the bat for an alleged unproven violation seems unfair and there is no challenge mechanism. 

There are a number of vocal property managers and “gurus” who are selling courses promoting all these fees and social media is a place where people are almost guilted into charging them because their competitors are all doing it and bragging about their extra income.

This is a runaway train right now. In the highly competitive world of SFH management, the companies are moving away from the traditional 10%-15% of rent commission model, dropping the commission to say 5% to scoop up business, and then actually making more with ever increasing owner and tenant fees. 

Harry

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From: landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org <landten-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> On Behalf Of RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2021 6:52 AM
To: landten at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Fines and Fees

Hey Harry,

I've seen quite a few questionable fees being charged as well, but not quite to the petty level that you have mentioned.  In support of the charges, I would argue that any of the tenant's actions that result in a cost to the Landlord should be legitimately reimbursable.  For example, if the dog poops on the law and there's no consequence, then no harm no foul.  But if the HOA fines the owner, then I would argue the tenant should be obligated to pay for that.  Or if the a/c company charges a missed appointment fee and the tenant agreed to be there, but wasn't, then seems fair.

However, in many examples, the property managers are just trying to pad their pockets at the tenant's expense with potential of causing landlords to lose tenants over bogus and petty charges.  I see similar moves in the title world with realtors charging "processing fees" or "transaction fees" or "admin fees" which is nothing more than a scheme to charge an extra $300-$400 for doing their job.  

My understanding is the commission and property management fee is their compensation, so trying to charge tenants for being human leaves a bad taste (not necessarily illegal).

Cary

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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RPPTL Leasing Committee] Fines and Fees
From: RPPTL Real Estate Leasing Committee
<landten at lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:landten at lists.flabarrpptl.org> >
Date: Wed, January 27, 2021 6:00 pm
To: <landten at lists.flabarrpptl.org <mailto:landten at lists.flabarrpptl.org> >

There’s a big move nationwide to put all kinds of fines and fees in a residential lease.

Don’t pick up your dog’s poop, a fine.  Miss an appointment with a repair person, a fee.  Tamper with the smoke detectors, a fine. Leave your garbage cans out, a fine.  HOA writes a letter to the owner, a fine. Parking violation, a fine. Bring a pet on the property, a fine. We have to serve you a Three Day, a fee. 

What do you all feel about the legality of fees and fines?

Florida law does not really address them and rarely have I seen them in residential leases except for late fees and bad check fees.

There are a few states that specifically disallow fees and fines.  The whole property management industry seems to be pushing the envelope and clients ask me WHY something is not legal and I’m basically at a loss.

How would you argue for or against a fee or fine in court?  I can’t stand them but the clients really push it. 

Harry 

LAW OFFICES OF 
HEIST, WEISSE & WOLK P.A.
PH: 1 800 253 8428
FAX: 1 800 367 9038
"Serving the Property Management Professional"
Website:   <http://www.evict.com/> www.evict.com 
Email:  <mailto:harry at evict.com> harry at evict.com

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