[CLC-Discussion] Fwd: Online Lien Co. Hits Ohio State Bar With Antitrust Suit

Tue Dec 12 08:04:38 PST 2017

Dan,
If you look at the ethical lines taught to paralegals and now regulated by The Florida Bar, you see the line between providing the form and advising the client what to put into the blanks.  It is analogous to the line a paralegal must follow.

From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 10:39 AM
To: Charles B. Hernicz, Esq. <Chernicz at herniczlegal.com>
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Fwd: Online Lien Co. Hits Ohio State Bar With Antitrust Suit

Not my point.

And that can happen to a lawyer too.

Many lawyers do not understand the lien law and even the most experienced Construction lawyers  err in interpreting chapter 713.   You and I personally know this very well.

The point I am making is that if the lienor signs the lien, the lienor prepared the lien and owns its contents.  Otherwise don’t sign it.

The fact a notice company facilitates the process for the lienor should not invalidate an otherwise valid lien.

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega
Board Certified in Construction Law
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com<mailto:dvega at tevtlaw.com>

On Dec 12, 2017, at 10:28 AM, Charles B. Hernicz, Esq. <Chernicz at herniczlegal.com<mailto:Chernicz at herniczlegal.com>> wrote:
I have a good example of why notice companies should not be preparing liens for subs (taken from real facts).  A notice company prepared a lien for a sub, who wasn’t  a lienor within the definition of chapter 713 (a third level sub-sub-sub).  The sub was unaware (the notice company almost certainly unaware) that the lien was legally invalid.  The sub later filed for foreclosure on the lien and could face fees and costs because the lien in unenforceable.  That is why an attorney should be involved; subs DO NOT KNOW that notice companies are prohibited by law from preparing liens.  This is the practice of law.

Chuck

From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Steve Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:55 AM
To: 'Dan Vega' <DVega at TEVTLaw.com<mailto:DVega at TEVTLaw.com>>; 'Weintraub, Lee' <lweintraub at bplegal.com<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>>
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Fwd: Online Lien Co. Hits Ohio State Bar With Antitrust Suit

I think we can all agree that there is a variety of legal analysis that takes place in lien preparation such as:

-        Is it timely? (i.e. what exactly is last date of work or provision of materials?)
-        Have conditions precedent been met (NTO – have all parties been properly served?)
-        Privity issues (i.e. tenant involved? Exculpatory language in recorded landlord’s lease?)

These are legal issues that need a lawyer’s analysis.  I have prospective clients approach me all the time with potentially defective liens they recorded themselves.  Unfortunately, they often do so after the time for amendment.

Steven F. Thompson, Esq.
Thompson Commercial Law Group
412 E. Madison St., Ste 900
Tampa, Fl. 33602
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Fax 813-387-1824
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:27 AM
To: Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>>
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Fwd: Online Lien Co. Hits Ohio State Bar With Antitrust Suit

So if a non lawyer Non lienor drafts contract, and lienor signs it, the contract is not valid???

Guys, there are many subs who rely on the notice companies to perfect their claims, especially in South Florida.

As long as lienor signs the lien, the law presumes he/she read doc and agreed to it.  Fact that lienor did not fill in blanks on a lien form, is inconsequential.   On the other hand, invalidating a lien based on same may be catastrophic to the lienor, its employees and the company as a whole.

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega
Board Certified in Construction Law
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com<mailto:dvega at tevtlaw.com>

On Dec 12, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>> wrote:
In litigation.  They draft their own contracts all the time.

From: Dan Vega [mailto:DVega at TEVTLaw.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 9:17 AM
To: Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>>
Cc: Charles B. Hernicz, Esq. <Chernicz at herniczlegal.com<mailto:Chernicz at herniczlegal.com>>; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Fwd: Online Lien Co. Hits Ohio State Bar With Antitrust Suit

Lienors are usually companies.  Companies cannot rep themselves.

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega
Board Certified in Construction Law
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com<mailto:dvega at tevtlaw.com>

On Dec 12, 2017, at 9:11 AM, Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>> wrote:
Because a lienor, like any client, can represent itself (other than in litigation of course).  But if a company holds itself out as an expert to others and receives compensation for its services, it needs to know how to do it.  NTO companies don’t know how to handle complex property title issues or figure out what’s lienable and what’s non-lienable, among other issues.

From: Dan Vega [mailto:DVega at TEVTLaw.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 8:48 AM
To: Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>>
Cc: Charles B. Hernicz, Esq. <Chernicz at herniczlegal.com<mailto:Chernicz at herniczlegal.com>>; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Fwd: Online Lien Co. Hits Ohio State Bar With Antitrust Suit

But if lienor prepares lien it’s ok?

Makes no sense
Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega
Board Certified in Construction Law
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com<mailto:dvega at tevtlaw.com>

On Dec 12, 2017, at 8:25 AM, Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>> wrote:

The attorney general held it does matter. Drafting of liens requires legal analyses that could screw a lienor who relies upon such analysis performed by a non-lawyer.
Sent from my iPhone

Lee A. Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group

1 East Broward Blvd., Suite 1800 | Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301
Tel: 954.985.4147 | Fax: 954.985.4176 | E-Mail<mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com>
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On Dec 12, 2017, at 8:21 AM, Dan Vega <DVega at TEVTLaw.com<mailto:DVega at TEVTLaw.com>> wrote:
Does it matter who prepares the lien form so long as lienor signs it?

The notice companies provide a valuable service to many small companies who otherwise would likely blow their lien rights.

Sent from my iPhone

Daniel R. Vega
Board Certified in Construction Law
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile: (305) 443-2048
Cell: (305) 962-5186
E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com<mailto:dvega at tevtlaw.com>

On Dec 12, 2017, at 7:41 AM, Charles B. Hernicz, Esq. <Chernicz at herniczlegal.com<mailto:Chernicz at herniczlegal.com>> wrote:
Notice companies in Florida regularly prepare claims of lien in violation of Section 713.08(2); now they jut put the company’s name in the “Return to” block but are still in clear violation of this prohibition.

Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar
Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
1460 Wood Row Way
Wellington, FL 33414
Telephone: (561) 753-7511
Facsimile: (561) 753-7082
Chernicz at HerniczLegal.com

From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org> [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org] On Behalf Of Barry Kalmanson
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 4:34 PM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org<mailto:clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Fwd: Online Lien Co. Hits Ohio State Bar With Antitrust Suit

Interesting reading attached regarding a company known as Zlien operating throughout Florida.

After reading the opinion/agreement you may want to look at Section 713.08(2) Florida Statutes.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson
500 N Maitland Avenue
Suite 305
Maitland, Fl. 32751
407-645-4500 x 215

www.barrykalmanson.com<http://www.barrykalmanson.com>

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