[CLC-Discussion] (no subject)

Sun Jul 31 17:52:10 PDT 2016

The answer is in Section 713.08(2) and section 713.37 as well as the opinions cited by Robert Worman.

Sincerely,

Barry Kalmanson
500 N Maitland Avenue
Suite 305 
Maitland, Fl. 32751
407-645-4500 x 215

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Worman <rworman at wormanlaw.com>
To: Neal Sivyer <NSivyer at sbwlegal.com>; Dan Vega <DVega at tevtlaw.com>; Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com>; Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>; CHernicz <CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com>
Cc: clc-discussion <clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org>
Sent: Thu, Jul 28, 2016 11:19 am
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

Acknowledging Neal’s plea, maybe the attached will put this issue to rest and we can all “move on”.

For the past 40 years I have represented one NACM of Florida, Inc., also known as NACM-South Atlantic. My client has, on my advice, steadfastly refused to prepare liens notwithstanding the repeated request of its members.  Same goes, I understand, for the other Florida based NACM affiliate, NACM-Tampa, Inc., represented by Barry Kalmanson.

Liens prepared by anyone other than the lienor or a person under the supervision of an attorney are in violation of these opinions and the statute. I have in the past argued successfully they are unenforceable by the courts, since to do otherwise would be for a judge to authorize and condone an illegal act.

Regards,

Robert B. Worman
Worman & Sheffler, P.A.
2707 West Fairbanks Avenue
Suite 200
Winter Park, FL 32789
407 843-5353
rworman at wormanlaw.com
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Neal Sivyer
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 10:18 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega at tevtlaw.com>; Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com>; Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>; CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

Guys please have mercy.   There 22 emails to everyone in our group on this issue this morning.   

Neal Sivyer
Sivyer Barlow & Watson, P.A.

401 E. Jackson Street
Suite 2225
Tampa, Florida 33602

Main – 813.221.4242
Fax – 813.227.8598

nsivyer at sbwlegal.com

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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Weintraub, Lee <lweintraub at bplegal.com>; Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>;CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

And a lay person employee does?  

Not a convincing argument at all.  

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law & Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile:  (305) 443-2048
Cell:  (305) 962-5186
E-mail:dvega at tevtlaw.com
www.tevtlaw.com

The information contained in this email message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message.

From: Weintraub, Lee [mailto:lweintraub at bplegal.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:52 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega at tevtlaw.com>; Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>;CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

The NTO company has no idea how to handle complex property description issues, etc. and the lienor has no idea that the NTO company has no idea.  That is the whole point of unauthorized practice of law.

Lee A. Weintraub
Shareholder
Board Certified in Construction Law
Chair, Public Private Partnerships Practice Group
Vice Chair, Construction Law and Litigation Practice Group
1 East Broward Blvd., Suite 1800 | Fort Lauderdale, FL 33301
Tel: 954.985.4147 | Fax: 954.985.4176 |E-Mail
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From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:49 AM
To: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. <Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com>;CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

Reese, if it is a bad lien it is a bad lien.  Case over, you win and other side pays fees. 

As to a notice company preparing a bad lien, then the lienor should not sign it.  If the lienor signs it, the lienor buys it.  Same result occurs if the employee prepares a bad lien and then the lienor/boss signs it. 

Daniel R. Vega, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law & Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Court Mediator
Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A.
2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Telephone: (305) 443-2043
Facsimile:  (305) 443-2048
Cell:  (305) 962-5186
E-mail:dvega at tevtlaw.com
www.tevtlaw.com

The information contained in this email message is intended only for the personal and confidential use of the recipient(s) named above. This message may be an attorney-client communication and as such is privileged and confidential. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, and delete the original message.

From: Reese J. Henderson, Jr. [mailto:Reese.Henderson at gray-robinson.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 9:46 AM
To: Dan Vega <DVega at tevtlaw.com>; CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

Dan,

A claim of lien is more than just a notice to owner that is dropped in the mail.  It is recorded in the public records and places a cloud on someone’s title to real property.  It exposes the owner of the property to loss through inability to sell the property, refinance, etc.  It consequently exposes the party recording the lien to potential liability for slander of title as well as filing a fraudulent lien.  Preparing a claim of lien requires an ability to accurately determine and insert a legal description to real property, accurately compile theamount of the claim of lien and ensure that notice of that claim of lien is properly delivered to the owner.  The statute specifically authorizes a lienor to act “pro se” to prepare and record its own claim of lien (even though, if it is an entity, it would not be able to act “pro se” to file an action to enforce that claim of lien in court).  However, that is very different from another party or entity preparing that claim of lienfor the lienor.  That is called the practice of law.

I can tell you from personal experience that notice companies file bad liens all the time.  They are not trained as attorneys.  If an attorney improperly prepares a claim of lien and the client pays the price, the attorney has malpractice coverage to compensate the client.  What sort of insurance do you suppose the notice companies have for their clients?

Reese

Reese J. Henderson, Jr. | Shareholder
Florida Bar Board Certified in Construction Law
Florida Supreme Court Certified Circuit Civil Mediator
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From:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Dan Vega
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 8:22 AM
To: CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com
Cc: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

If the lien is defective, it is defective.  

Are you all saying that a secretary at a subcontractors office cannot prepare the lien even though it is signed by the president of the sub? 

If a notice company prepares the lien form based on info provided by the sub, and the sub president signs it, what is wrong w that? 

Sent from my iPhone 

Daniel R. Vega

Board Certified in Construction Law

Taylor Espino Vega & Touron, P.A. 

2555 Ponce De Leon Blvd., Suite 220

Coral Gables, Florida 33134

Telephone: (305) 443-2043

Facsimile: (305) 443-2048

Cell: (305) 962-5186

E-mail: dvega at tevtlaw.com 

On Jul 28, 2016, at 8:12 AM, Charles B. Hernicz, Esq <CHernicz at Herniczlegal.com> wrote:

I agree Brian.  Notice companies offer this and prepare liens all the time.  I’ve had to deal with numerous defective liens from notice companies.  This was outlawed in 713.08 in 2007, but it is not being policed or enforced.

Chuck

Charles B. Hernicz, Esq.
Board Certified in Construction Law by The Florida Bar          
Hernicz Legal Services, P.L.
15854 Bent Creek Road
Wellington, FL 33414 
Telephone: (561) 753-7511 
Facsimile: (561) 753-7082 
Chernicz at HerniczLegal.com

From:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Wolf, Brian
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 10:08 AM
To: Michael J. Kurzman; 'Alex Barthet'; Arnold Tritt; Willis, David; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

If the committee is going to address this issue, the committee should also address the larger problem of “lien notice services” offering to prepare claims of lien.

Brian A. Wolf
Partner
Board Certified Construction Attorney
<image002.jpg><image003.jpg>
101 N.E. Third Avenue, Suite 1910
Fort Lauderdale, FL  33301
954.769.5330 direct
954.524.6927 fax
bawolf at smithcurrie.com
www.smithcurrie.com<image004.png> <image004.png>

From:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Michael J. Kurzman
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:34 AM
To: 'Alex Barthet'; Arnold Tritt; Willis, David; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

Perhaps a letter to the Florida Attorney General’s office to see if they are interested in looking into the matter?

It seems to me that if you can show they are using false and misleading information, the Attorney General may be interested…

Michael J Kurzman, Esq.
Florida Bar Certified In Construction Law
Weiss Serota Helfman Cole & Bierman
200 East Broward Boulevard - Suite 1900
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida 33301
954 763 4242

From:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Alex Barthet
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:13 AM
To: Arnold Tritt; Willis, David; clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

Arnie – I can’t argue with your logic about Grade A clients.  Grade B clients help pay the bills and may be susceptible.  Grade C clients, good riddance. 

That said, as officers of the court knowing that they are fraudulently inducing those in the construction industry to hire them with false promises, if there is something we can do, we probably should.

Regards,
Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Blog
vCard |Biography

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1800
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 
alex at barthet.com
www.barthet.com

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender.  Thank you.

From: Arnold Tritt [mailto:arnold.tritt at atritt.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 9:05 AM
To: Alex Barthet <Alex at barthet.com>; Willis, David <dwillis at rumberger.com>;clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Texas Collection Agencies

MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING.  Grade A business / construction clients don’t forsake their relationship with their legal counsel and engage an out-of-state collection agency to collect on a Claim of Lien based on a phone solicitation any more than Grade A business / construction clients engage an attorney in response to a radio spot.  The Texas boys have been at it for years and your Grade A clients will always call you when they are contacted by such folks. If your client was ever to be duped by such tactics it was not Grade A and should be dropped and referred to your competition.  Just my thoughts.  Arnie.

From: clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Alex Barthet
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:43 AM
To: Willis, David <dwillis at rumberger.com>;clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: Re: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

David - I have tried to call on numerous occasions after they call my clients and they never call me back.  Once they know a lawyer is involved, they seem to duck back into the shadows.

Regards,
Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
TheLienZone Construction Law Blog
vCard |Biography

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1800
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 
alex at barthet.com
www.barthet.com

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender.  Thank you.

From: Willis, David [mailto:dwillis at rumberger.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:36 AM
To: Alex Barthet <Alex at barthet.com>;clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: RE: Texas Collection Agencies

I have heard similar stories.  Milton Myers went away when I returned the call.

David C.Willis
Board Certified in Construction Law and Business Litigation

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Direct: 407.839.2186
Main: 407.872.7300
Cell: 407.497.9174
Email: dwillis at rumberger.com
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From:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org [mailto:clc-discussion-bounces at lists.flabarrpptl.org]On Behalf Of Alex Barthet
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 7:32 AM
To: clc-discussion at lists.flabarrpptl.org
Subject: [CLC-Discussion] Texas Collection Agencies

Good morning all.  I am writing about an issue that I am seeing with increasing frequency.  The purpose of this email is to (i) alert the community of this practice, (ii) learn if others are hearing the same thing from their clients and (iii) see if folks smarter than me have any ideas how to deal with, or ideally, stop them.

Many of our clients that record liens are receiving unsolicited calls from collection agencies out of Texas, the two most common we are seeing are Tucker Albin and Assoc. (http://tuckeralbin.net/) and Milton Myers and Assoc. (http://www.mmatx.net/).  Obviously, they are getting the clients’ information by pulling the liens from the public records.

The problem is that they are making blatantly false statements such as they are working with others on the project and can guaranty payment if the client signs up, or they are representing several other lienors on the same project that are about the get paid and if the client signs up, he can get them paid now.  The reason I know these statements are false is because in the last two occasions that my clients received these calls, they were the only lienors on the projects and on both, I was already in contact with counsel for both the contractor and owner negotiating settlements.

I look forward to hearing from the group.

Regards,
Alex Barthet
Board Certified in Construction Law
vCard |Biography

The Barthet Firm
200 S. Biscayne Blvd., Suite 1800
Miami, Florida 33131
305-347-5295 
alex at barthet.com
www.barthet.com

This electronic communication may contain privileged, confidential, or proprietary information.  If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized agent of the intended recipient, please delete this communication and notify the sender.  Thank you.

Michael Kurzman
Partner, Florida Bar Certified in Construction Law

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