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I agree with Cat Clark. I looked into this some years ago for a surviving spouse, and found that (at the time at least and If I remember correctly) California has/had a two-year "old and cold" statute <span style="display: inline !important; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);" class="ContentPasted0">(no
need to disclose > 2 yrs later)</span>. This made some good policy sense to me. Something for WA to consider. At the time I found no safe harbor authority in WA, and advised client accordingly.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Catherine Clark <Cat@loccc.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 26, 2023 11:15 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com>; Roger Hawkes <roger@skyvalleylawyers.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">As I tell folks when asked what needs to be disclosed, I say “well, if you tell them about it then they can’t sue you for not.”
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">I’m with Annie on this. </p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Light",sans-serif">Catherine “Cat” Clark<br>
Law Office of Catherine C. Clark PLLC</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Copperplate Gothic Light",sans-serif; color:black">110 Prefontaine Place South, Ste. 304</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="border:none; padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:atfitz@comcast.net">Annie Fitzsimmons</a><br>
<b>Sent: </b>Saturday, June 24, 2023 8:25 AM<br>
<b>To: </b><a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBA Real Property Listserv</a>;
<a href="mailto:roger@skyvalleylawyers.com">Roger Hawkes</a><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">Good Morning. I know nothing about the new topic of discussion but I do not agree with the consensus regarding suicide disclosure. I am not aware of anything
in statutory or common law expressly excusing a seller from disclosing suicide or other death in the sale of real estate. I believe it will be an issue of first impression the first time an appellate court hears the issue.
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">RCW 18.86.010, the Agency Law, defines "Material Fact" to exclude suicide or other death from disclosures that real estate brokers are required to make.
However, the Seller Disclosure Act, RCW 64.06, mandates the questions a seller must answer in disclosing the condition of the property. The final question on the residential form asks if there are any other "material defects" a buyer should know. The Legislature
did not use the same term ("Material Facts") as used in the Agency Law and did not refer back to RCW 18.86 in defining the information that a seller must give buyer.
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">I am not aware of any other common or statutory law limiting a seller's obligation to disclose. Based on that, I have always concluded that while the Legislature
has addressed the issue for real estate brokers, Washington law has not provided an answer as to seller's obligation.
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">There are certainly arguments to be made in defense of a seller not having to disclose ... the Legislature could have asked that question directly on Form
17 if they wanted the disclosure, for example. Similarly, however, there are arguments favoring seller making the disclosure ... the Legislature could easily have referred back to the definition of "Material Fact" had the Legislature intended to give seller
the same disclosure obligation as brokers. Consequently, I believe the question is ripe for litigation and if your advice to your seller client is that they are absolutely excused from disclosing suicide or other death in the property, I think you put yourself
at risk in resolution of the issue. </span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">My two cents ...
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif; color:#333333">-- Annie Fitzsimmons
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<p>Annette T. Fitzsimmons P.S.<br>
P.O. Box 430<br>
Belfair, WA 98528</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">On 06/24/2023 7:32 AM MDT Roger Hawkes <roger@skyvalleylawyers.com> wrote:
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span>I can’t say I now understand it. Couldn’t then either<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">Harry Cross was my prof.</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></strong> wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Joshua Grant<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Friday, June 23, 2023 8:12 PM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><a name="x_OLE_LINK1"></a><a name="x_OLE_LINK2"><span style="">I retired as a county judge… before that when I would get a law student Rule 9… , and the supervising attorney was in the back row, I would say: “Welcome to Lincoln
County counsel, I see this is your first time here.. we have a local rule that you must pass a test to practice here… and it is easy, only one question, define the term incorporeal hereditament”.. lawyer in back seat is trying not to laugh out loud… never
had more than a frozen gaze,.. waiting for “well in real property law there is this bundle of sticks….” Never happened.. then I said “oh o.k. we can proceed”.</span></a></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style=""><span style="">So I was delighted to see this response.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,</span></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style=""><span style="">Josh</span></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style=""><span style=""><strong><span style="font-size:18.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#004080">Joshua F. Grant</span></strong></span></span><span style=""><span style=""><span style="font-size:14.0pt; color:#004080"><br>
</span></span></span><span style=""><span style=""><span style="font-size:14.0pt; color:black"><img border="0" width="166" height="34" id="x_Picture_x0020_4" style="width:1.7291in; height:.3541in" data-outlook-trace="F:1|T:1" src="cid:image004.png@01D9A81F.90B19530"></span></span></span><span style=""><span style=""><span style="font-size:14.0pt; color:black"><br>
</span><span style="color:#004080">P. O. Box 619<br>
Wilbur, WA 99185<br>
509 647 5578</span></span></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style=""><span style=""></span></span><a href="mailto:jgrant@advocateslg.com"><span style=""><span style="">jgrant@advocateslg.com</span></span><span style=""></span><span style=""></span></a></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></strong>
<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Roger Hawkes<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Friday, June 23, 2023 1:50 PM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> WSBA Real Property Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""> </p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">And I thought ‘incorporeal hereditaments’ was the real hoot<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span></p>
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<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></strong>
<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Lynn Clare<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Friday, June 23, 2023 1:26 PM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> WSBA Real Property Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</p>
</div>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">There was a New York case we read in law school where a party sold a "haunted" B and B that had been on some kind of advertised ghost tour. The buyers didn't know
about it until later and sued. The court held that "having persistently held out the house as haunted, Sellers are estopped from claiming that it isn't. The house is, as a matter of law, haunted."</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">It was a hoot.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 12:40 PM Inge Fordham <<a href="mailto:inge@fordhamlegal.com">inge@fordhamlegal.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">That’s one I haven’t heard of … failure to disclose ghost haunting property. Thanks for this gem.
<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt"><strong><span style="font-size:13.0pt; font-family:"Cambria",serif; color:#203864">Inge A. Fordham | Attorney</span></strong></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">From:
</span></strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"><a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
on behalf of Bryce Dille <<a href="mailto:Bryce@dillelaw.com" target="_blank">Bryce@dillelaw.com</a>><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Date: </span></strong>Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:57 AM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To: </span></strong>WSBA Real Property Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject: </span></strong>Re: [WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">You are correct years ago I represented the Realtor who sold a house where owners mother had committed suicide which wasn’t disclosed and the buyer sued for non disclosure saying the Ghost of the deceased was still in the property
crt dismissed saying no requirement of disclosure</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">Bryce H. Dille</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">Dille Law, PLLC</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">2010 Caton Way SW Ste. 101</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">Olympia, WA 98502</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">Office: 360-350-0270</p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">Cell: 253-579-5561</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></strong>
<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Inge Fordham<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Friday, June 23, 2023 11:42 AM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> WSBA Real Property Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">My understanding is that in the State of Washington, sellers are not required to disclose a death on the property (whether by murder, suicide, etc.).</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt"><strong><span style="font-size:13.0pt; font-family:"Cambria",serif; color:#203864">Inge A. Fordham | Attorney</span></strong></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:3.0pt"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Cambria",serif; color:black">Fordham Law, PLLC</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:black">From:
</span></strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt; color:black"><a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
on behalf of Craig Gourley <<a href="mailto:craig@glgmail.com" target="_blank">craig@glgmail.com</a>><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Date: </span></strong>Friday, June 23, 2023 at 11:35 AM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To: </span></strong>WSBA Real Property Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject: </span></strong>[WSBARP] Suicide disclosure</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style="">Listmates, does anyone know what the seller’s disclosure requirement ( if any) is when someone has committed suicide in a home? Thanks, Craig</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">GOURLEY LAW GROUP</span></strong></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">THE EXCHANGE CONNECTION</span></strong></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal" style=""><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">SNOHOMISH ESCROW
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