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<p class="MsoNormal">It seems that this is somewhat unsettled territory. There is potential risk in not disclosing, and the only downside in disclosing is turning off some potential purchasers. In today’s hot market, why not disclose and let those purchasers
pass? You can bet that there will be a neighbor(s) that tells the purchaser this information. “Oh, you are the one that bought the house where old man Smith shot himself.” You will generate more fees for the estate in dealing with complaints or worse than
simply being upfront in the first place. My .02 for a Saturday afternoon.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold"">Jennifer L. White, Esq.</span>
<span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img width="105" height="105" style="width:1.0958in;height:1.0958in" id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D804A3.E7120D90"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:jen@appletreelaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1;font-style:normal">jen@appletreelaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold",sans-serif">PO Box 11037<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold",sans-serif">Yakima, WA 98909<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial Rounded MT Bold",sans-serif">509.225.9813<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Annie Fitzsimmons<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 8, 2022 3:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com>; Kary Krismer <Krismer@comcast.net><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBARP] Estate's Duty to Disclose Decedent's (homeowner) suicide.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I agree with Sam and Kary. Washington has not spoken as to a seller's obligation to disclose death on a property. When this case is eventually argued, I suspect
the hair splitting will come down to the significance of the Legislature using the term "material DEFECT" in the final question of the seller disclosure statement versus "material FACT" in the Agency Law. If the Legislature wanted to limit a seller's disclosure
obligation to be consistent with a broker's disclosure obligation, the Legislature could have used the term "material fact" in the seller's disclosure statement and even defined the term through reference to RCW 18.86. But ... it didn't. Instead, it used
a different term altogether. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I would be careful telling a seller that they definitely have no obligation to disclose death on a property.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p>Annette T. Fitzsimmons P.S.<br>
P.O. Box 430<br>
Belfair, WA 98528<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 01/07/2022 6:03 PM Kary Krismer <<a href="mailto:krismer@comcast.net">krismer@comcast.net</a>> wrote:
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<p>I would tend to agree, but the second sentence is too broad. The PR is exempt from doing a seller disclosure statement under the title, but not necessarily "any sellers' disclosures."<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Kary L. Krismer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>206 723-2148<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/7/2022 5:51 PM, Samuel M. Meyler wrote: <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">This is one that I have actually gotten a few times from brokers and sellers. First, a personal representative is exempt from making any sellers’ disclosure. RCW 64.06.010(6). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">A broker has a duty to disclose material facts known to the broker and not apparent or readily ascertainable to a party. RCW 18.86.030(1)(d). That being said, death of any sort
is not considered a “material fact.” The Legislature made sure of that…<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">“Material fact” means information that substantially adversely affects the value of the property or a party's ability to perform its obligations in a real estate transaction, or
operates to materially impair or defeat the purpose of the transaction. <strong>
<span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The fact or suspicion that the property, or any neighboring property, is or was the site of a murder, suicide or other death, rape or other sex crime, assault or other violent crime, robbery or burglary, illegal
drug activity, gang-related activity, political or religious activity, or other act, occurrence, or use not adversely affecting the physical condition of or title to the property is not a material fact.</span></strong> RCW 18.86.010(9). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">For sellers who are not exempt from providing Form 17, Washington law doesn’t expressly require that a seller disclose any sort of death but one of the last questions of the seller
disclosure statement is, “Are there any other existing material defects affecting the property that a prospective buyer should know about?” This is usually where the concern about disclosing a death arises.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">As I have advised clients in the past, whether or not a death in the residence is a “material defect” is a questions of fact that Washington courts have not ruled on. That being
said, the legislature has indicated that “murder, suicide or other death” are not “material facts” that a broker would be required to disclose and some other states have ruled on this issue. While it is nonprecedential,
<em><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Milliken v Jacono</span></em>, et al. out of Pennsylvania considered whether a murder-suicide in a home was a material defect requiring disclosure based on a similar seller disclosure form to our Form 17.
Pennsylvania’s Supreme Court ruled that it was not a “material defect” and that, “psychological stigmas are not material defects of property that sellers must disclose to buyers.” Non-binding, but worth considering.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Sam<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> </span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Samuel M. Meyler</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Meyler Legal, PLLC </span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">1700 Westlake Ave. N., Ste. 200</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Seattle, Washington 98109</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Tel:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> 206.876.7770</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Fax:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> 206.876.7771</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">Email:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> </span><a href="mailto:samuel@meylerlegal.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">samuel@meylerlegal.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:blue">NOTICE:</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></strong>
<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com></a>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Kary Krismer<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Friday, January 7, 2022 4:18 PM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> <a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [WSBARP] Estate's Duty to Disclose Decedent's (homeowner) suicide.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>If the listing broker is asked they would have a duty to honestly answer and disclose what they know. That's part of the statutory duties and also likely a Realtor ethical rule.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I'm not so certain there is a clear answer to this question as to the P.R. It's clearly not based on Form 17, but there may be some other duty.<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Kary L. Krismer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>John L. Scott, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>206 723-2148<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 1/7/2022 3:08 PM,
<a href="mailto:Jeff@bellanddavispllc.com">Jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Listmates:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Probate estate is selling Decedent’s home in which decedent committed suicide. Must a potential Buyer be informed how the owner died?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Jeff Davis<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">W. Jeff Davis</span></strong><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">BELL & DAVIS PLLC</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
P.O. Box 510</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black">720 E. Washington Street, Suite 105<br>
Sequim WA 98382<br>
Phone: (360) 683.1129 <br>
Fax: (360) 683.1258 <br>
email: </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"><a href="mailto:jeff@bellanddavispllc.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">jeff@bellanddavispllc.com</span></a><span style="color:black"><br>
</span></span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.bellanddavispllc.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=kDcM-fraYQNOZ1rCslLoMSSRXJQXmQVvRJbE6ymQGho&m=MFSfO08MqkSQmKyAl8DPqnwnCMKMVuELaAFybCjH3qM&s=LeZ49RmfK8XirlJge9bUUfKqdtMWZDNP0N9v6vXTXRU&e=" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">www.bellanddavispllc.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black"><br>
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