<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto">Sure. That would make things even more complicated. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 15, 2021, at 11:09 AM, Kaitlyn Jackson <kaitlyn@dimensionlaw.com> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">Can’t they just cap the step up?<br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 15, 2021, at 10:39 AM, John J. Sullivan <sullaw@comcast.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">And ... hitting everyone with cap gains on inherited property, after reducing the benefit of inherited IRAs isn’t exactly “progressive.” This is a middle class tax increase. <br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 15, 2021, at 10:32 AM, John J. Sullivan <sullaw@comcast.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">They looked at ending the step up (or studied it) in the Carter years. The administrative hassle of multigenerational basis tracking is a real burden. That’s what’s always stopped it before. You’re right that it’s tied at the hip to the estate tax to mitigate the overall burden. <div><br></div><div>I’ve always thought the Canadian system made more sense. I don’t know if it’s still the law, but instead of an estate or inheritance tax, they used to impose a 15% capital gains tax on capital assets at death. It avoids the carryover basis and is a much less confiscatory tax than an excise on the transfer that can amount to as much as 40% to 50% of the DOD value. </div><div><br></div><div>John J. Sullivan <br><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from my iPhone</div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Jan 15, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Kary Krismer <Krismer@comcast.net> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>The step up in basis makes little sense with the increased
unified credit. Before there was much more of a chance of double
taxation. Maybe even less sense in the context of a spouse
receiving property.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/15/2021 9:46 AM, Rani K. Sampson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:BYAPR14MB32224557409A07231CB1DAD7D0A70@BYAPR14MB3222.namprd14.prod.outlook.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">According to a local CPA who just gave a
tax update talk, his firm expects the step-up in basis to be
on the chopping block. 1031s are also a target.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif">That’s part of the fun of working in
estate-planning. The laws are always changing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#003300">Rani K. Sampson<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#003300">Overcast Law Offices
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:#7F7F7F">|</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#003300"> Attorney<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#003300">23 S Wenatchee Ave #320,
Wenatchee WA 98801
</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
New Roman",serif;color:#7F7F7F">|</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif;color:#003300"> (509) 663-5588 x 6<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New
Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John J. Sullivan, Esq.<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 15, 2021 9:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com"><wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBARP] Taking non resident alien
spouse off title of real estate - tax issues<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Yes. If it is converted from CP to SP as
TIC, only the decedent’s half would receive the first step up.
But the SS still gets the $250K residence exemption for SS’s
half, and the entire property would get the step up at the
second death. It may not be a major concern. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">John J. Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com"><wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com></a>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kary Krismer<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 15, 2021 8:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBARP] Taking non resident alien
spouse off title of real estate - tax issues<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>I've been thinking about my step up in basis concern, and I
no longer think it's a concern. If the other spouse gets the
property the basis would be stepped up because they would
inherit the entire property. If anyone else gets the
property, the basis would be stepped up for the same reason.
I think the concern would be converting the property from
community property to tenants in common. There my concern
would be only half the property would get a step up in basis.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>But of course, checking with a tax attorney would be
prudent. There may be other estate or income tax concerns.<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Kary L. Krismer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>206 723-2148<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/12/2021 9:42 PM, Kary Krismer wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>What I meant by raising FIRPTA was whether the couple was
contemplating a future sale and thinking by doing a QCD
beforehand they could avoid FIRPTA. I'm not sure that
future sale would give rise to FIRPTA withholding, but again
I'm not sure it wouldn't either. But I wasn't worried about
FIRPTA on the gift.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>As to the step up in basis my concern was that the step up
would only apply to community property, not separate
property. Also a question I don't know the answer to. In
the back of my mind I seem to recall it applies to either
type of property, but that's something I'd want to make sure
of.<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Kary L. Krismer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>206 723-2148<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/12/2021 7:29 PM, John J. Sullivan
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Good points. <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1. No FIRPTA withholding on gifts. No
gain realized. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/exceptions-from-firpta-withholding" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/exceptions-from-firpta-withholding</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">2. Yes. If NRA spouse died first
there would be a step up in basis even though estate not
subject to estate tax. Perhaps she transfers her
interest to a revocable trust for his benefit? Or
somehow achieve whatever the objective is while not
removing it from her gross estate?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://hodgen.com/why-nonresident-decedents-get-step-up-basis-at-death/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://hodgen.com/why-nonresident-decedents-get-step-up-basis-at-death/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Don’t forget to check any applicable
treaty. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">John J.
Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On
Jan 12, 2021, at 7:15 PM, Kary Krismer
<a href="mailto:Krismer@comcast.net" moz-do-not-send="true"><Krismer@comcast.net></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I would take a step back, and if this is just about
FIRPTA, find out if FIRPTA would even apply with a
US Citizen still on title. I sort of doubt it would
since they would have a taxpayer to reach, but I
don't know that.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And then I would think about the step up in basis
on death of community property when a spouse passes
away, and find out whether you'd be giving that
away. Without this transfer and a step up in basis
there'd likely be little or no gain for several
years, and even if FIRPTA applied any money taken
would be paid back upon filing a return. Note that
step up in basis would apply whichever spouse dies
first.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It may be the client is wishing to avoid a
non-existent problem and creating a future
liability.<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Kary L. Krismer<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>206 723-2148<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 1/12/2021 6:22 PM, John J.
Sullivan wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">If NRA wife gifts now to
citizen husband, the unlimited marital deduction
applies.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would specify it’s to
create separate property and claim that REET
exemption so if she dies her estate has no CP
interest in US source property. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">John
J. Sullivan<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Jan 12,
2021, at 3:42 PM, Lisa Chiang
<a href="mailto:feesimple7@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><feesimple7@gmail.com></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">Hi
all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">A
silly question, as it's been awhile
since I've dealt with this scenario,
so want to be sure:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">Client
is U.S. citizen. Wife used to hold a
green card, which she gave up after
they moved overseas a decade ago. IRS
deems her to be a non resident alien
(NRA) for tax purposes. Kids are also
U.S. citizens (all minors currently).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">Real
estate in WA state acquired as
community property when they both
lived and worked here.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">Client
would like to take his wife off title
of WA house (she's agreeable).
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">Wondering
about gift tax issues before we
proceed. (Will prepare QDOT for
other liquid assets). Any thoughts
or wisdom from the group is greatly
appreciated.</span></b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">Kind
regards, <o:p>
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75">Lisa<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:#351C75"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#351C75;background:#EEEEEE">Estate
planning and
settlement,
trusts, real
estate and
</span></i><span class="gmaildefault"><i><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Courier
New";color:#351C75;background:#EEEEEE">probate</span></i></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Courier
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