<div dir="ltr">Isn't a <i>presumption </i>appropriate to refer to if and only if there's not evidence to the contrary? I would think that's why a title company would ask if there's a will before transferring the property automatically. The presumption would be appropriate in the absence of contradictory information. Those are my lame thoughts. <div><br></div><div>Kaitlyn</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 11:44 AM Mark Vohr <<a href="mailto:mcv@ohanafc.com">mcv@ohanafc.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks John – always nice to have an opinion from title. I agree with the analysis that a conveyance to H&W creates a presumption that the property is community property, but I also believe
that community property can be held as TIC or JTWROS depending on what the vesting document says (or doesn’t say). In other words, the character of the property, community or separate, and the ownership of the property, TIC or JTWROS are two separate and
distinct things each requiring a separate inquiry and each separately impact the ownership rights that can be conveyed by a decedent.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Regards, <u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Mark<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Mark C. Vohr<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Ohana Fiduciary Corp.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Ohana Financial Services<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">A Washington Trust Company<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Mark C. Vohr, J.D., CPG, Principal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">PO Box 33710 Seattle, WA 98133<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">T: (206) 782-1189 F: (206) 782-1434<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:mcv@ohanafc.com" target="_blank">mcv@ohanafc.com</a> <a href="http://www.ohanafc.com" target="_blank">www.ohanafc.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John McCrady<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 12, 2019 9:40 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Real Property Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBARP] TIC or JTWROS?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I think every title company would require what we call a “Lack of Probate Affidavit” before vesting title in the surviving spouse. On the lack of probate affidavit the surviving spouse is required to disclose
whether the deceased had a will, and if so, we require a copy of the will for our review. If the will leaves the property to someone other than the surviving spouse we require a disposition of that party’s interest.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">But, somewhat contrary to your statement, the interest acquired by “A and B, husband and wife” is presumed by law to be community property, not TIC.
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__app.leg.wa.gov_RCW_default.aspx-3FCite-3D26.16.030&d=DwMFAg&c=euGZstcaTDllvimEN8b7jXrwqOf-v5A_CdpgnVfiiMM&r=K1mLMC1eFjwfeeMM-AC6zQ&m=-G0Mj1xers1ckmqAuRD8bXMfed_Ni-L0FsgOuw_1PHA&s=rldTMfrI-ggO5BruUDxpJA_QLPpZzzvSZqgvg2du0Fc&e=" target="_blank">
RCW 26.16.030</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">John McCrady<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Counsel<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Puget Sound Title Company<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">5350 Orchard Street West<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">University Place WA 98467<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">253-476-5721<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="mailto:j.mccrady@pstitle.com" target="_blank">j.mccrady@pstitle.com</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">
wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Mark Vohr<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 11, 2019 5:33 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBARP] TIC or JTWROS?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I have a title person in Jefferson county telling me it’s common practice in title companies when property is acquired as “husband and wife” (the type of ownership – TIC or JTWROS is not
indicated in the deed) to pass the ownership to the surviving spouse without any kind of conveyance since Washington is a community property state, all they require is proof of death of the spouse. Title has always done this, we’ve used death certificates,
lack of probate affidavit’s or actual probates as proof of death of the spouse and then just vest the ownership in the surviving spouse.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">My understanding is that a transfer to H&W (or any conveyance to more than one person) without indicating the type of ownership creates a tenancy in common, RCW 64.28.020. In our case
the decedent left his entire estate in trust for his surviving spouse, which I would conclude would include his TIC share in real property. Title transferred it all to the surviving spouse. It would seem we have to claw it back.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Regards, <u></u>
<u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Mark<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC""><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC"">Ohana Fiduciary Corp.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC"">A Washington Trust Company<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC"">Mark C. Vohr, J.D., CPG, Principal<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC"">PO Box 33710 Seattle, WA 98133<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Bradley Hand ITC"">T: (206) 782-1189 F: (206) 782-1434<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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