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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F4E79">Why is $18.75 paid to WSBA? How can it possibly cost that much to maintain a listserv? I am also a member of the CondoLawyers listserv, which is free. I always assumed the WSBA Real Property listserv also
was free, even it sponsored by WSBA.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F4E79"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:black">Doug Wheeler<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Senior Counsel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">VI Resorts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">1417 116<sup>th</sup> Avenue NE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Bellevue, WA 98004<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Office: (425) 454-3065, Ext. 1309<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Fax: (425) 990-2655<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F4E79"><a href="mailto:DWheeler@viresorts.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">DWheeler@viresorts.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F4E79"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F4E79"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Annie Fitzsimmons<br>
<b>Sent:</b> January 17, 2019 5:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Update on Upcoming Changes to the Real Property and the Probate & Trust Listservs<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Good evening WSBA RP listserv! Thank you for all the constructive discussion today around listserv access. I am sorry to be late to the party but one of the services bestowed
by our section is input to the Legislature, as subject matter experts, on real estate bills. If today is any example, this is going to be a busy session!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I am the current Chair of the Real Property, Probate and Trust section. Thanks to others, the input I can add at this point, in this discussion, is minimal. Michael and Chris
did a good job of explaining the executive committee discussions that led to this decision. As background these discussions began last spring and then consumed significant aspects of two EC meetings this past fall. We tried to be as intentional and thoughtful
in our conclusions as possible. If we missed the mark, we will return to the discussion. Our next EC meeting is February 8 and we will consider any suggestions to create a better approach.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">I am sure you already know this, but let me be clear. Our effort was not intended, in any way, to limit participation by any lawyers, young or old. RPPT exists by membership
participation for the purpose of serving members and the Washington legal community. Our listserv is a rich tool because of the diverse array of contributors. That said, many on the Executive Committee were surprised to learn that access to the WSBA RP listserv
is not limited to lawyers and law students. Anybody can join the listserv. Is that bad? No, of course not. But, we felt it was critical for members of the listserv to be made aware of the fact that non-lawyers may not only be on the listserv but may be
asking for the legal advice and strategy that listserv members are so generous to share. In an era where giving "cocktail party counsel" can create liability, listserv members should know that the advice and strategy they are sharing may be consumed by non-lawyers,
pro se litigants and others. Because of that, we chose to inform listserv members of the fact that listserv membership is not dependent upon WSBA membership with the notifications Michael has described.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Additionally, we decided that while $25 is not a huge sum, joining the section and paying the section dues requires, at least, nominal commitment and may prevent casual consumption
of legal counsel by non lawyers who drop in when needing assistance in their own case. Even so, it is important to remember to treat discussion on this listserv as public commentary.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">With respect to the $25 fee, please know that this is not a money maker for the section. From the $25, $18.75 goes to WSBA. If we reduce the fee to $10 for some members, the
section will literally pay $8.75 to WSBA for that member to join. Maybe we want to create an emeritus status for retired lawyers and supplement their membership. That is something we can discuss at the EC. Please know, however, that there are more tentacles
to this decision than simply deciding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">If you have ideas, other than those already discussed today, that you would like us to consider, please feel free to respond to the listserv or email me privately, if you prefer:
<a href="mailto:atfitz@comcast.net">atfitz@comcast.net</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Thank you! Annie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="io-ox-signature">Annette T. Fitzsimmons P.S.<br>
P.O. Box 65578 <br>
Tacoma, WA 98464<br>
253-460-2988/866-290-8362(fax)<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On January 17, 2019 at 4:32 PM Eric Nelsen <<a href="mailto:Eric@sayrelawoffices.com">Eric@sayrelawoffices.com</a>> wrote:
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Michael -- </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thank you for all the work you put into keeping this Section going.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">This probably already has been a conversation among the Section governance folks, so I bet I'm late to the game here and I can only speak for myself of course, but:
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I would happily pay higher annual section dues ($30 annually instead of $25?) if I knew that the additional amount made it possible to (1) allow inactive and retired attorneys, and title officers,
to participate in the listservs for free; and/or (2) add some security to our listserv to make it a somewhat more private forum--messages and archives not accessible via Google search, for example.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Two bucks a month is already a ridiculous bargain for all the benefit I receive from this forum, so $2.50 or $3 a month isn't going to drive me out.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I think it makes sense for the Section to be free to people who are retired and don't need questions answered or any benefit from other Section services like CLEs, and are only sticking around because
they want to provide help and advice to colleagues who need it. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I also think it helps our listserv conversation to know that one's questions and answers are somewhat "private" among colleagues and professionals, at least to the point of being protected from
cursory snooping. I certainly don't expect a major security effort and true privacy online just isn't realistic, but I hope there might be some configuration that is within reach of the Section budget and workload that would help.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">$0.02. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Sincerely, </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Eric </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">1417 31st Ave South
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98144-3909
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040 </span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Michael Safren<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Thursday, January 17, 2019 11:11 AM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> WSBA Real Property Listserv<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Cc:</span></strong> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [WSBAPT] [WSBARP] Update on Upcoming Changes to the Real Property and the Probate & Trust Listservs
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Hello Fellow Listserv Participants:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">I wanted to address some concerns that some of the listserv subscribers and participants had about some of the changes. Specifically, some participants who are not members of the bar expressed concerns that the upcoming changes
would force them to take on the economic obligation to join the bar. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">I want to assure you that this is not the case. A person can enjoy section membership in the WSBA RPPT section without necessarily being a member of the WSBA. I've posted the by-law below to assure those who have these concerns
that section membership is open to non-WSBA members. Please note that non-WSBA members would not be able to vote in section elections, but would otherwise enjoy the other member benefits including: access to the Quarterly Newsletter, access to electronic
resources such as deskbook sections, and access to the listservs. Please see the by-laws below: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal" style="margin-left:.5in">2 Subscribers. Any law student or other person may be enrolled as a non-voting member (“subscriber”) upon request and payment of applicable annual Section dues. Subscribers shall be entitled to receive
the Newsletter of the Section and shall have access to materials and pages designated as "Members Pages" on the Section's web site, but subscribers have no right to vote.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal" style="margin-left:.5in">2.3 Dues. Dues shall be paid annually in advance. Any person who shall fail to pay the annual dues shall cease to be a member or subscriber of the Section, as applicable. Dues, which shall be determined
by the executive committee of the Section, and approved by the Bar Board of Governors, may differ for voting members and subscribers. The dues for law students shall be set according to the annual standard established by the Board of Governors for law student
section memberships.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">I hope this assuages the concerns of the non-member participants to the listserv. Please know that everyone's participation in the listserv is valued. The Executive Committee decided to implement these changes to the listserv
in part due to the resources necessary to maintain and operate the listservs and to improve the overall experience for both the listservs and for section members.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Michael Safren<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Web Editor, RPPT section <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM RebeccaWiess <<a href="mailto:rwiess@foxinternet.net">rwiess@foxinternet.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">The new policy means I and other retired attorneys will no longer be part of this listserv. I occasionally post on historical evolution of real property
procedure or law, as a contribution to the education of those who come after me, and payback for those who helped me as a newbie thirty-some years ago. If institutional memory is valuable, then this listserv needs an emeritus status to include folks like me.
If us old folks are not of value, then cut us out. And before you say “just join the section,” remember that retaining bar membership after retiring means continuing to pay bar dues and CLE costs. Once you do that, you get tempted to do some little piece of
practice, and then you should be insured as well, and that means needing more income, and suddenly you are not retired anymore. Allowing non-practicing members of the bar to join still means you are going to eliminate some of your oldest and most experienced
current members, because they retired.. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Rebecca K. Wiess</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">421 24th Avenue East</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Seattle, WA 98112</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Phone 206 329-6638</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy"><a href="mailto:rwiess@foxinternet.net" target="_blank">rwiess@foxinternet.net</a> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"><strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Michael Safren<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sent:</span></strong> Thursday, January 17, 2019 9:18 AM<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">To:</span></strong> WSBA Real Property Listserv; WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br>
<strong><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Subject:</span></strong> [WSBARP] Update on Upcoming Changes to the Real Property and the Probate & Trust Listservs</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Hello Fellow Listservers:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">I wanted to provide another reminder to all listserv users of the scheduled updates and upcoming changes to both the Real Property and Probate & Trust Listservs.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Starting February 1st, 2019, both listservs will only be accessible by WSBA RPPT members. The RPPT Executive Committee decided after much deliberation and input that the listservs should be an exclusive member benefit. Starting
February 1st, 2019, you will need to login into the <a href="http://www.wsbarppt.com/" target="_blank">www.wsbarppt.com</a> website using your section login and password in order to register for the listserv, access the listserv archives, and/or unsubscribe
to the listserv. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Further, the Executive Committee has approved the adoption of new guidelines, rules, and general etiquette for the listserv. These will be posted on
<a href="http://www.wsbarppt,com">www.wsbarppt,com</a> under the listserv tab for all members to see and review.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Lastly, beginning on February 1st, 2019, all listserv postings will contain a disclaimer in the footer reminding all that while the listservs will be restricted to RPPT section members, not all section members are practicing
attorneys. Section membership is open to law students, non-practicing members of the bar, and even some non-attorney professionals in related fields such as title officers, real estate agents, and escrow agents. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">The Executive Committee believes that these changes will improve the listserv experience for section members and deliver value to members as one of many available section member benefits.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">I hope to make the transition to the members only listserv as seamless as possible If you experience any difficulty during the transition, please feel free to email me and I will do my best to respond and assist you.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Kind regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Michael Safren<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">Web Editor, RPPT Section <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="ox-4a26e19104-msonormal">_______________________________________________<br>
WSBARP mailing list<br>
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<a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp" target="_blank">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________ <br>
WSBARP mailing list <br>
<a href="mailto:WSBARP@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBARP@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <br>
<a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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