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</head><body><p>RE: lien rights. Arguably not, but I don't believe there is a clear answer. RCW 60.04.011(13) defines “Professional services” as including “surveying, establishing or making the boundaries of, preparing maps, plans, or specifications for, or inspecting, testing, or otherwise performing any other architectural or engineering services for the improvement of real property." This could arguably limit lien rights to architects, engineers, and surveyors who are licensed. See Blue Diamond Group, Inc. v. KB Seattle 1, Inc., 266 P.3d 881, 163 Wn.App. 449 (2011), where the court said construction management was not a professional service.<br></p><ul style="font-size: 13.013px; margin: 0px 0px 14px; padding: 0px 0px 4px; list-style: none; overflow: hidden; color: #6e6e6e; border-bottom-width: 1px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: #e8e8e8; font-family: 'Lucida Sans Unicode', 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 1; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><li style="font-size: 13.0143px; float: left; padding: 0px 20px 3px 0px; white-space: nowrap;"><br></li></ul><blockquote type="cite"><!-- [if !mso]> --><!-- <![endif] --><!-- [if gte mso 9]> --><!-- <![endif] --><!-- [if gte mso 9]> --><!-- <![endif] --> On September 25, 2015 at 11:15 AM Eric Nelsen <Eric@sayrelawoffices.com> wrote:<br><br><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Thanks everybody! And thanks Jay for the cite to the lien law--helpful.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">A couple wrinkles:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">1. Advertising as "architect" - interestingly, it appears that "architect" is one of the search key words embedded in his site so that you are directed there via a search engine, but his website doesn't actually say "architect" visibly anywhere. In fact the website appears to rather carefully NOT say architect, or even mention anything about his qualifications. This still sound like a violation?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">2. Lien - my understanding is that a "building designer" is unlicensed and unregulated in Washington, but nevertheless allowed to design stuff that I'd consider architecture--like expansions and renovations of existing homes. Given that a license isn't required, can the designer gain lien rights as he's theoretically providing "professional services" related to improvement of real property?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Sincerely,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Eric</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Eric C. Nelsen</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">1320 University St</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">Seattle WA 98101-2837</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">phone 206-625-0092</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;">fax 206-625-9040</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><div><div style="border: none; border-top: solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';"> wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Jay Goldstein<br> <strong>Sent:</strong> Friday, September 25, 2015 9:06 AM<br> <strong>To:</strong> 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'<br> <strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [WSBARP] "Designer" non-architect - lien rights? right to advertise as "architect"?</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; color: #1f497d;">Bad guy needs to get a letter from AIA state chapter alerting bad guy that he is violating the law, needs to stop false advertising, etc, and cc DOL.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; color: #1f497d;">I’ve had to write many of these letters to unlicensed practitioners for a state organization of licensed professionals, and the bad guys generally stop the unlawful practice pretty quickly.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; color: #1f497d;">J</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Freehand521 BT'; color: #17365d;">Jay A. Goldstein</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"><img id="Picture_x0020_1" style="width: 315px; height: 86px;" src="cid:image001.png@01D0F783.2CA32450" alt="cid:AEF18ED8-6AEE-403C-99E7-30A379E62D84@local" height="86" width="315"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #404040;">1800 Cooper Point RD SW NO. 8</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #5d6f21;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #4c4c4c;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #5c6d2c;">|</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #5d6f21;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #4c4c4c;"> Olympia, WA 98502</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #5d6f21;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #4c4c4c;">Telephone 360.352.1970 </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #5c6d2c;">| </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #4c4c4c;"> Fax 360.357.0844 </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #5c6d2c;">|</span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #5d6f21;"> </span><span style="font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #4c4c4c;"> <a href="http://www.jaglaw.net/">www.jaglaw.net</a> </span><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Arial','sans-serif'; color: #17365d;"><a href="mailto:jay@jaglaw.net">jay@jaglaw.net</a></span></span><br></p><p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; color: #17365d;"> </span></strong></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #000099;">Nothing contained herein should be construed as legal advice.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #000099;">The purpose of this email is to transmit a message or document.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #000099;">Should you not be the intended recipient of this email message,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #000099;">please reply advising of the mistake and then delete this message </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #000099;">from your computer. Should you have any questions, </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; color: #000099;">please call the Sender at 360-352-1970.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 14.0pt; color: #1f497d;"> </span></p><div><div style="border: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">From:</span></strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"> <a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>] <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Mark K. Funke<br> <strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, September 24, 2015 3:58 PM<br> <strong>To:</strong> WSBA Real Property Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br> <strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [WSBARP] "Designer" non-architect - lien rights? right to advertise as "architect"?</span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">Eric -</p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">As for the licensing issue, it’s a gross misdemeanor and subjects him to civil penalties.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Just ask a licensed architect how they feel about “designers” calling themselves architects… I have found enforcement by the state lax in WA but brutal and swift in CA.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><h3 style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 0in; background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif';">18.08.460<br> Violation of chapter — Penalties — Enforcement — Injunctions — Persons who may initiate proceedings.</span></h3><p style="line-height: 15.0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif';">(1) Any person who violates any provision of this chapter or any rule promulgated under it is guilty of a misdemeanor and may also be subject to a civil penalty in an amount not to exceed one thousand dollars for each offense.</span></p><p style="line-height: 15.0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif';"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">and</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><h3 style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 7.5pt; margin-left: 0in; background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif';">18.08.310<br> Authorization to practice required — Out-of-state firms — Interns.</span></h3><p style="line-height: 15.0pt; background: white;"><span style="font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif';">(1) It is unlawful for any person to practice or offer to practice architecture in this state, or to use in connection with his or her name or otherwise assume, use, or advertise any title or description including the word "architect," "architecture," "architectural," or language tending to imply that he or she is an architect, unless the person is registered or authorized to practice in the state of Washington under this chapter.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">- Mark</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">__</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">FUNKE PS</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Mark K. Funke, Attorney</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">1411 East Olive Way</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Seattle, Washington 98122</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">P.206-632-1535</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">F.206-374-2283</span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"><a href="mailto:mark@funkelaw.com">mark@funkelaw.com</a></span><br></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 24, 2015, at 2:14 PM, Eric Nelsen <<a href="mailto:Eric@SAYRELAWOFFICES.COM">Eric@SAYRELAWOFFICES.COM</a>> wrote:</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"> </p><blockquote><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Potential client hired someone whose website says "architect" and he calls himself that too. But he's not a licensed architect and the fine print in the contract says he's a design firm, not an architect or engineer.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Assuming for the moment this guy is at least reasonably qualified to do the job but just doesn't have the state license for an architect--</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">1. Can he lien the project?</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">2. Is it misrepresentation or misleading to advertise as an architect in Washington, when not licensed as one?</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Thanks all!</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Sincerely,</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Eric C. Nelsen</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">1320 University St</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">Seattle WA 98101-2837</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">phone 206-625-0092</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';">fax 206-625-9040</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri','sans-serif';"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9.0pt; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif';">_______________________________________________<br> WSBARP mailing list<br> <a href="mailto:WSBARP@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style="color: purple;">WSBARP@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a><br> <a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp"><span style="color: purple;">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp</span></a></span><br></p></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></blockquote><p><br> </p><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br>WSBARP mailing list<br>WSBARP@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp</blockquote><p><br> </p><p class="io-ox-signature">Scott G. Thomas<br>Law Office of Scott G. Thomas<br>1204 Cleveland Avenue<br>Mount Vernon, WA 98273<br>(360) 503-1042<br>www.scottgthomaslaw.com<br><br><br></p></body></html>