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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here's what I don't get: What authority does DOR have to require the PR to assert/declare
<u>anything</u> regarding the 1st death? The conveyance is PR-to-buyer, or PR-to-heirs. It's either exempt or it isn't. Suppose the Deed is complete BS, and is from a random person outside chain of title to a duped buyer? Again, it's not DOR's job to inquire
into the quality of Grantor's title, and I don't see that it has statutory authority to block a current transfer in order to strong-arm somebody into recording an
<u>unnecessary</u> document on an earlier transfer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Again I think, class action. I don't mind paying taxes and I approve of government services in general, but I sure mind government departments overstepping
what I see as their lawful bounds.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sincerely,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">1320 University St<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Wills<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 21, 2014 1:40 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Real Property Listserv<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBARP] Excise tax and penalties for decedent - grant county<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 11/21/2014 12:03 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I recall something similar in King County a couple years ago, where a transaction was held up because the estate of the first spouse to die was never probated,
and DOR refused to acknowledge that they had no basis to collect excise tax on the prior transfer. If I remember right, DOR insisted that excise tax is due unless an exemption is cited, and with no transfer on record with an exemption from first spouse to
survivor, they can collect tax on that off-the-record transfer. Aside from that one instance, I haven't heard anything about it since.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><br>
I've recorded several PR's Deeds in King County where:</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<b>No probate of 1st death.</b><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<b>Probate of 2nd death.</b><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<b>PR of 2nd death does PR's Deed of family home.</b><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<b>PR of 2nd death also does Decl re prop was CP of couple & all went to SS at 1st death.</b><o:p></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">
<b>Nobody yet (in King) has questioned the recording or transfer or made any claim that REET was due at 1st death or that SS's PR's Decl failed to result in REET exemption.</b><o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p><b>As I say, that's only happened to me in Grant.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Seems like no good argument to me--it puts DOR in the position of verifying propriety of the transfer itself, whereas their role is supposed to be examining
the transfer documents and collecting tax or permitting an exemption <u>on that specific transfer</u>. If your deed is "PR-of-H to Buyer," then I don't see why DOR should be permitted to require excise tax
<u>on this transfer</u> for a completely different, "W-to-H" transfer that occurred off the record in 2009. If they don't like it, they should audit the prior transfer or start an action under
<a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=82.45&full=true#82.45.080">
RCW 82.45.080</a>, not hold up the current conveyance.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">That's as I read
<a href="http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=82.45&full=true">RCW 82.45</a>, anyway. Clearly DOR has a different opinion. Given the amounts typically at stake, it may take a class action to get it figured out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Sincerely,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Eric C. Nelsen</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">1320 University St</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Seattle WA 98101-2837</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">phone 206-625-0092</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">fax 206-625-9040</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> [<a href="mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">mailto:wsbarp-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Josh Grant<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 21, 2014 11:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> wsbar; wsbar trust<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBARP] Excise tax and penalties for decedent - grant county</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">H&W owned real property. W died in 2009. H died 2014. Son is PR. Pr has an P&S for a new buyer. PR is happy to pay the normal excise tax on this sale.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Title company is allowing sale of W’s interest based on our affidavit to clear title, so no probate needed for W.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Grant County indicates that we have to pay additional excise tax and penalties and interest from 2009 til now on the transfer from W to H... and they base that on a sale price = 1/2 of the
assessed value.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">there was no sale back in 2009. If we did a probate of W’s estate, they would have to file a PR deed without any excise tax. It isn’t enough of an excise tax to justify doing a probate.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">any other counties doing this?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Joshua F. Grant, PS<br>
Attorney at Law<br>
P. O. Box 619<br>
Wilbur, WA 99185<br>
tel 509 647 5578<br>
fax 509 647 2734</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>WSBARP mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="mailto:WSBARP@lists.wsbarppt.com">WSBARP@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp">http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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