[WSBARP] Waterfont home
Stephen Whitehouse
swhite8893 at aol.com
Fri Feb 24 20:12:20 PST 2017
There is a bill before the legislature right now that would amend the hydraulics code that would make it more difficult to build a bulkhead for a residence.
Stephen Whitehouse
Whitehouse & Nichols, LLP
P.O. Box 1273
601 W. Railroad Ave.
Shelton, Wa. 98584
360-426-5885
swhite8893 at aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: wsbarp-request <wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com>
To: wsbarp <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Sent: Fri, Feb 24, 2017 12:00 pm
Subject: WSBARP Digest, Vol 29, Issue 15
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
(Marc Holmes)
2. Re: Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
(Rick Hoss)
3. Re: Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
(Marc Holmes)
4. Question about rights of possession after Sheriff's Sale
(Scott Hildebrand)
5. Probate or not to probate (Jim Doran)
6. Re: Question about rights of possession after Sheriff's Sale
(Wendy Walter)
7. Re: Probate or not to probate (Wendy Walter)
8. Referral Needed --- Lack of Permit Question (Ronald L. Coleman)
9. Re: [WSBAPT] Question about rights of possession after
Sheriff's Sale (Rob Wilson-Hoss)
10. Re: Probate or not to probate (Rob Wilson-Hoss)
11. Re: Probate or not to probate (Jim Doran)
12. Re: Probate or not to probate (John McCrady)
13. Re: Probate or not to probate (Jim Doran)
14. boundary disputes (Roger Hawkes)
15. Re: boundary disputes (Douglas W. Scott)
16. Re: Probate or not to probate (Marcus Fry)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:03:05 -0800
From: "Marc Holmes" <marc at holmeslawgroup.com>
To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Cc: 'Kim Holmes' <kim at holmeslawgroup.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act
question
Message-ID: <00d001d28e18$3b0cf570$b126e050$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks Doug. Good stuff as always. The septic is of particular concern
because the upland/shoreland area is not especially large so relocating it
might be difficult or worse. Anyone have comments or suggestions on this
issue?
Marc Holmes
Holmes Law Group PLLC
808 5th Ave N
Seattle WA 98109
HolmesLawGroup.com <http://holmeslawgroup.com/>
marc at holmeslawgroup.com
Ofc: 206-357-4224
Cell: 206-849-0853
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Wheeler, Doug
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 10:33 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Cc: 'Kim Holmes'
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
I have dealt with the SMA in Pierce County on our personal property, so I
can offer a few comments (which I assume will be applicable in King County).
The 200 foot setback that you mention probably was adopted after the house
and improvements were built. The Department of Ecology made a big push
starting in around 2008 to get all Counties to update their local SMA codes
to increase setbacks (among other things). Therefore, the existing
improvements should be grandfathered under the codes in effect when the
improvements were constructed.
Any new construction within the shoreline setback would have to comply with
current codes (and likely will require approvals/variances/etc. from the
State and County (and the Feds if navigable waters).
However, in my experience, existing improvements can be repaired and
replaced as long as replacements do not exceed existing footprints. For
example, a house with dimensions of 40' x 50' could be rebuilt within that
40' x 50' footprint, but no larger. I do not believe that there would be
any restriction on the height of the new structure, except for height
restrictions applicable under the current zoning code (for example, a
one-story house could be rebuilt as a two-story house as long as the house
does not exceed the current height limitations in that zone).
The dock would be subject similar constraints. It is probably
grandfathered, and probably cannot be enlarged, but probably can be
maintained without triggering new SMA requirements. If the dock is
repaired, the repairs may trigger daylighting requirements (requiring that
portions over the water be replaced with a walking surface that lets light
reach the water beneath it). However, if the dock is ever demolished, it
may be almost impossible to replace. I would rigorously keep it in good
repair.
If the septic system is within the now applicable shoreline setback, that
could create problems if the existing system fails. I have not had to deal
with that so I can't really comment except that I would rigorously maintain
it.
I am not aware of any restrictions on vegetation due to the SMA.
Doug Wheeler
General Counsel
Vacation Internationale, Inc.
(425) 454-3065 (Ext 1208)
(206) 356-8350 (Cell)
<mailto:DWheeler at VIResorts.com> DWheeler at VIResorts.com
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Marc Holmes
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:28 AM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
Cc: 'Kim Holmes'
Subject: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
We have a client who is purchasing a waterfront home on Bainbridge. We are
in the early stages of researching how the Shoreline Management Act will
effect this property. The house was built in 2006. It is quite close to the
water, so the house, dock, and septic system all likely fall within the SMA
(200 ft from high water mark). Some of our immediate concerns are whether
the house, septic, and dock could be rebuilt if they were destroyed.
Smaller, but still important, concerns are how difficult it will be for our
clients to make changes to those structures and systems (remodel) and/or the
vegetation near the water. We welcome any suggestions on research,
additional concerns we should investigate or general advice.
Thanks to all.
Marc Holmes
Holmes Law Group PLLC
808 5th Ave N
Seattle WA 98109
HolmesLawGroup.com <http://holmeslawgroup.com/>
marc at holmeslawgroup.com
Ofc: 206-357-4224
Cell: 206-849-0853
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 13:29:47 -0800
From: "Rick Hoss" <rhoss at hctc.com>
To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Cc: 'Kim Holmes' <kim at holmeslawgroup.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act
question
Message-ID: <02fc01d28e1b$f5139c50$df3ad4f0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Marc - The local jurisdiction will have adopted a Shoreline Master Plan with
restrictions unique to this area. Ours limits vegetation removal within 135
feet of the ordinary high water line. Rebuilding if done within 2 years of
casualty is allowed and often with a 15% increase. In Mason County we can
request and pay a small fee for a pre-inspection report done by a planner
and they will highlight all the applicable regulations and setbacks. If your
health department can't answer specific septic concerns they will have a
list of approved installers and designers - most of those can quickly answer
questions. I request public records from health, building and planning
department, then follow up with questions to the correct department. You
will get copies of the actual on-site septic permit and know who the
designer and installer were.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Marc Holmes
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:28 AM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
Cc: 'Kim Holmes'
Subject: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
We have a client who is purchasing a waterfront home on Bainbridge. We are
in the early stages of researching how the Shoreline Management Act will
effect this property. The house was built in 2006. It is quite close to the
water, so the house, dock, and septic system all likely fall within the SMA
(200 ft from high water mark). Some of our immediate concerns are whether
the house, septic, and dock could be rebuilt if they were destroyed.
Smaller, but still important, concerns are how difficult it will be for our
clients to make changes to those structures and systems (remodel) and/or the
vegetation near the water. We welcome any suggestions on research,
additional concerns we should investigate or general advice.
Thanks to all.
Marc Holmes
Holmes Law Group PLLC
808 5th Ave N
Seattle WA 98109
HolmesLawGroup.com <http://holmeslawgroup.com/>
marc at holmeslawgroup.com
Ofc: 206-357-4224
Cell: 206-849-0853
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 17:42:48 -0800
From: "Marc Holmes" <marc at holmeslawgroup.com>
To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Cc: 'Kim Holmes' <kim at holmeslawgroup.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act
question
Message-ID: <016101d28e3f$4e0e75a0$ea2b60e0$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thanks Rick and to those who replied off list.
Marc Holmes
Holmes Law Group PLLC
808 5th Ave N
Seattle WA 98109
HolmesLawGroup.com <http://holmeslawgroup.com/>
marc at holmeslawgroup.com
Ofc: 206-357-4224
Cell: 206-849-0853
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Rick Hoss
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 1:30 PM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
Cc: 'Kim Holmes'
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
Marc - The local jurisdiction will have adopted a Shoreline Master Plan with
restrictions unique to this area. Ours limits vegetation removal within 135
feet of the ordinary high water line. Rebuilding if done within 2 years of
casualty is allowed and often with a 15% increase. In Mason County we can
request and pay a small fee for a pre-inspection report done by a planner
and they will highlight all the applicable regulations and setbacks. If your
health department can't answer specific septic concerns they will have a
list of approved installers and designers - most of those can quickly answer
questions. I request public records from health, building and planning
department, then follow up with questions to the correct department. You
will get copies of the actual on-site septic permit and know who the
designer and installer were.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
[mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Marc Holmes
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 9:28 AM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
Cc: 'Kim Holmes'
Subject: [WSBARP] Waterfront home & Shoreline Management Act question
We have a client who is purchasing a waterfront home on Bainbridge. We are
in the early stages of researching how the Shoreline Management Act will
effect this property. The house was built in 2006. It is quite close to the
water, so the house, dock, and septic system all likely fall within the SMA
(200 ft from high water mark). Some of our immediate concerns are whether
the house, septic, and dock could be rebuilt if they were destroyed.
Smaller, but still important, concerns are how difficult it will be for our
clients to make changes to those structures and systems (remodel) and/or the
vegetation near the water. We welcome any suggestions on research,
additional concerns we should investigate or general advice.
Thanks to all.
Marc Holmes
Holmes Law Group PLLC
808 5th Ave N
Seattle WA 98109
HolmesLawGroup.com <http://holmeslawgroup.com/>
marc at holmeslawgroup.com
Ofc: 206-357-4224
Cell: 206-849-0853
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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:28:17 -0800
From: "Scott Hildebrand" <scott at starboard-strategies.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>,
"'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBARP] Question about rights of possession after Sheriff's
Sale
Message-ID: <002801d28ebb$036c1850$0a4448f0$@starboard-strategies.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Here is one for which I am trying to get an answer quickly:
Client wants to buy real property at an auction- judicial foreclosure.
The owner passed, leaving two heirs. One of the heirs is absent, wants to
let it go and is not an issue.
The other heir has moved in and is asserting his rights to redeem after the
sale.
My client doesn't want to buy a property in which a third party has
occupation rights.
Question:
If my client buys the property at auction, can he evict the heir after
getting a deed?
I presume that is the 20 day notice game, tenancy at sufferance.
During the eight month redemption period, does the heir have a right to
possess?
Time is of the essence since the auction is slated to happen in an hour or
so.
Thanks all,
Scott Hildebrand
Attorney at Law
206-605-8874
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 08:32:37 -0800
From: Jim Doran <jim at doranlegal.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Message-ID:
<CANk51bBuFgW88k7a1eh_KsNGDLCXZA+-uT39z1y4P7n8=jNHtw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I am going to ask this question simply because times and statutes change.
I have a client whose sister died owning a home. The Will gives the home
to the surviving sister and the brother. Everyone is in good accord.
I am unaware of any other process besides the probate process to transfer
the property to the heirs (brother and sister) through a Personal
Representative Deed. Is there an alternative way to do this?
I was going to call my local title company but I remember there are a few
of you on this list serve.
Thank you.
Jim Doran
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com
www.doranlegal.com
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:47:05 +0000
From: Wendy Walter <WWalter at McCarthyHolthus.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>, "'WSBA
Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Question about rights of possession after
Sheriff's Sale
Message-ID:
<D7B64ED7926AB54B8917FDC5DCF0CC9AAFE30B4F at IDS-MB.domain.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Consult the redemption law: http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=6.23.110 (also copied below).
I?ve had cases where Heirs have claimed the right to homestead and therefore possession during the redemption period. And although I don?t agree that the heir would be the judgment debtor (as they aren?t obligated on the debt, they are only joined in the foreclosure for the purposes of terminating their ownership interest in the property), the sheriff?s offices often require that we list them as a judgment debtor for any order of sale and sheriff?s instructions in order to make sure that they get notices of the sale.
RCW 6.23.110
Possession during period of redemption.
(1) Except as provided in this section and RCW 6.23.090<http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=6.23.090>, the purchaser from the day of sale until a resale or redemption, and the redemptioner from the day of redemption until another redemption, shall be entitled to the possession of the property purchased or redeemed, unless the same be in the possession of a tenant holding under an unexpired lease, and in such case shall be entitled to receive from such tenant the rents or the value of the use and occupation thereof during the period of redemption.
(2) If a mortgage contains a stipulation that in case of foreclosure the mortgagor may remain in possession of the mortgaged premises after sale and until the period of redemption has expired, the court shall make its decree to that effect and the mortgagor shall have such right.
(3) As to any land so sold which is at the time of the sale used for farming purposes, or which is a part of a farm used, at the time of sale, for farming purposes, the judgment debtor shall be entitled to retain possession thereof during the period of redemption and the purchaser or his or her successor in interest shall, if the judgment debtor does not redeem, have a lien upon the crops raised or harvested thereon during said period of redemption, for interest on the purchase price at the rate of six percent per annum during said period of redemption and for taxes becoming delinquent during the period of redemption together with interest thereon.
(4) In case of any homestead as defined in chapter 6.13<http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=6.13> RCW and occupied for that purpose at the time of sale, the judgment debtor shall have the right to retain possession thereof during the period of redemption without accounting for issues or for value of occupation.
Wendy Walter | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA and OR
McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
d. 206.596.4844 | f. 206.780.6862 | c. 425.241.5459
e. wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com<mailto:wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com>
Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas ? Washington
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error, please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve the originals from you at no charge.
Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Scott Hildebrand
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:38 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'; 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
Subject: [WSBARP] Question about rights of possession after Sheriff's Sale
Here is one for which I am trying to get an answer quickly:
Client wants to buy real property at an auction- judicial foreclosure.
The owner passed, leaving two heirs. One of the heirs is absent, wants to let it go and is not an issue.
The other heir has moved in and is asserting his rights to redeem after the sale.
My client doesn?t want to buy a property in which a third party has occupation rights.
Question:
If my client buys the property at auction, can he evict the heir after getting a deed?
I presume that is the 20 day notice game, tenancy at sufferance.
During the eight month redemption period, does the heir have a right to possess?
Time is of the essence since the auction is slated to happen in an hour or so?
Thanks all,
Scott Hildebrand
Attorney at Law
206-605-8874
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:49:39 +0000
From: Wendy Walter <WWalter at McCarthyHolthus.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Message-ID:
<D7B64ED7926AB54B8917FDC5DCF0CC9AAFE30B65 at IDS-MB.domain.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
You might want to consider a lack of probate affidavit. http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/forms/RealEstExcsTx/Lackofprobateaffidavit.pdf
The forms for these vary depending on the title company, but I would definitely consult with one in order to ensure the transaction is insurable.
Wendy Walter | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA and OR
McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
d. 206.596.4844 | f. 206.780.6862 | c. 425.241.5459
e. wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com<mailto:wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com>
Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas ? Washington
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error, please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve the originals from you at no charge.
Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:41 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
I am going to ask this question simply because times and statutes change.
I have a client whose sister died owning a home. The Will gives the home to the surviving sister and the brother. Everyone is in good accord.
I am unaware of any other process besides the probate process to transfer the property to the heirs (brother and sister) through a Personal Representative Deed. Is there an alternative way to do this?
I was going to call my local title company but I remember there are a few of you on this list serve.
Thank you.
Jim Doran
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>
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Message: 8
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 17:08:36 +0000
From: "Ronald L. Coleman" <rcoleman at dpearson.com>
To: "'wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBARP] Referral Needed --- Lack of Permit Question
Message-ID:
<DB67B85F484BD544A7B8C59C5EE24227E354B9A1 at MAILSRVR.dpearson.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
PC purchased house a year ago which was built in 1923, with unfinished attic at that time. 1971, attic finished without permit, but included by assessor in square footage of house. All work is fine and house has been appraised and sold four times since 1971, with the approx. 300 sq ft in upstairs (attic originally) included. House now being sold and VA appraiser says cannot include the upstairs because ceiling is 7 ft 4 inches and needs to be for code 7 ft 6 or 8 in (I am not sure on the 6" or 8"0). City of Tacoma says no record of permit. Workmanship not an issue and could be permitted if ceiling was higher, per City. I need to refer this to someone who has handled matters like this. I have heard of whole houses and garages being "permitted' after the fact, and this one seems very strange. The VA appraiser will not approve unless City says ok for use as finished.
Thank you.
Ron Coleman
Ronald L. Coleman
Direct 253-238-5129 - rcoleman at dpearson.com<mailto:rcoleman at dpearson.com>
Davies Pearson, P.C.
ATTORNEYS AT LAW
920 Fawcett Avenue / PO Box 1657, Tacoma, WA 98401
253-620-1500 | Fax 253-238-5158 | www.dpearson.com<http://www.dpearson.com>
Download vCard<http://www.dpearson.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Ronald_1584702.vcf> | View Profile<http://www.dpearson.com/people/ronald-l-coleman>
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Message: 9
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 09:22:27 -0800
From: "Rob Wilson-Hoss" <rob at hctc.com>
To: "'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>,
"'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] [WSBAPT] Question about rights of possession
after Sheriff's Sale
Message-ID: <01c701d28ec2$92410520$b6c30f60$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
This is not all that simple. The statute says that successors in interest have homestead rights which include here the right to possession during redemption:
(1) Real property sold subject to redemption, as provided in RCW 6.21.080, or any part thereof separately sold, may be redeemed by the following persons, or their successors in interest:
(a) The judgment debtor, in the whole or any part of the property separately sold.
(b) A creditor having a lien by judgment, decree, deed of trust, or mortgage, on any portion of the property, or any portion of any part thereof, separately sold, subsequent in priority to that on which the property was sold. The persons mentioned in this subsection are termed redemptioners.
(2) As used in this chapter, the terms ?judgment debtor,? ?redemptioner,? and ?purchaser? refer also to their respective successors in interest.
RCW 6.23.010
And, title vests in heirs immediately upon death, subject to rights and duties of PR, debts of the estate, family support allowances, and a couple of others. RCW 11.04.250.
Any purchaser under the facts you describe is as Wendy says likely a tenant by sufferance, but in addition, likely an heir who can certainly make a good argument that as such, he has the right to possession during redemption.
Without more time, that is off the top of my head; I would advise caution.
Rob
Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP
236 West Birch Street
Shelton, WA 98584
360 426-2999
www.hossandwilson-hoss.com
<mailto:rob at hctc.com> rob at hctc.com
This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments. Thank you.
This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. ? 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Walter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:47 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv; 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] [WSBARP] Question about rights of possession after Sheriff's Sale
Consult the redemption law: http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=6.23.110 (also copied below).
I?ve had cases where Heirs have claimed the right to homestead and therefore possession during the redemption period. And although I don?t agree that the heir would be the judgment debtor (as they aren?t obligated on the debt, they are only joined in the foreclosure for the purposes of terminating their ownership interest in the property), the sheriff?s offices often require that we list them as a judgment debtor for any order of sale and sheriff?s instructions in order to make sure that they get notices of the sale.
RCW 6.23.110
Possession during period of redemption.
(1) Except as provided in this section and RCW 6.23.090 <http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=6.23.090> , the purchaser from the day of sale until a resale or redemption, and the redemptioner from the day of redemption until another redemption, shall be entitled to the possession of the property purchased or redeemed, unless the same be in the possession of a tenant holding under an unexpired lease, and in such case shall be entitled to receive from such tenant the rents or the value of the use and occupation thereof during the period of redemption.
(2) If a mortgage contains a stipulation that in case of foreclosure the mortgagor may remain in possession of the mortgaged premises after sale and until the period of redemption has expired, the court shall make its decree to that effect and the mortgagor shall have such right.
(3) As to any land so sold which is at the time of the sale used for farming purposes, or which is a part of a farm used, at the time of sale, for farming purposes, the judgment debtor shall be entitled to retain possession thereof during the period of redemption and the purchaser or his or her successor in interest shall, if the judgment debtor does not redeem, have a lien upon the crops raised or harvested thereon during said period of redemption, for interest on the purchase price at the rate of six percent per annum during said period of redemption and for taxes becoming delinquent during the period of redemption together with interest thereon.
(4) In case of any homestead as defined in chapter 6.13 <http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=6.13> RCW and occupied for that purpose at the time of sale, the judgment debtor shall have the right to retain possession thereof during the period of redemption without accounting for issues or for value of occupation.
Wendy Walter | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA and OR
McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
d. 206.596.4844 | f. 206.780.6862 | c. 425.241.5459
e. <mailto:wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com> wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com
Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas ? Washington
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error, please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve the originals from you at no charge.
Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Scott Hildebrand
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:38 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'; 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
Subject: [WSBARP] Question about rights of possession after Sheriff's Sale
Here is one for which I am trying to get an answer quickly:
Client wants to buy real property at an auction- judicial foreclosure.
The owner passed, leaving two heirs. One of the heirs is absent, wants to let it go and is not an issue.
The other heir has moved in and is asserting his rights to redeem after the sale.
My client doesn?t want to buy a property in which a third party has occupation rights.
Question:
If my client buys the property at auction, can he evict the heir after getting a deed?
I presume that is the 20 day notice game, tenancy at sufferance.
During the eight month redemption period, does the heir have a right to possess?
Time is of the essence since the auction is slated to happen in an hour or so?
Thanks all,
Scott Hildebrand
Attorney at Law
206-605-8874
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Message: 10
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 09:28:49 -0800
From: "Rob Wilson-Hoss" <rob at hctc.com>
To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Message-ID: <01f001d28ec3$766393d0$632abb70$@com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The statutory lack of probate affidavit gets you through the Treasurer on a sale. It does not transfer title. If you want to transfer title, you talk to your favorite title examiner and see what they need in their own lack of probate affidavits, which are enough to allow them to insure title. But you should be prepared for being able to show that there are no issues as to the proper successor title holders, and no debt, and that this will probably require an indemnification by the heir sellers. This is from John McCrady's post of January 13:
The lack of probate affidavit does not transfer the title; if it is the title company?s affidavit, it is used to convince the title company to insure title in the wife notwithstanding the lack of a probate.
If it is the department of revenue?s affidavit, it is used to establish that no excise tax is owed on the ?conveyance? from husband to wife.
Rob
Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP
236 West Birch Street
Shelton, WA 98584
360 426-2999
www.hossandwilson-hoss.com
rob at hctc.com
This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments. Thank you.
This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. ? 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Walter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
You might want to consider a lack of probate affidavit. http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/forms/RealEstExcsTx/Lackofprobateaffidavit.pdf
The forms for these vary depending on the title company, but I would definitely consult with one in order to ensure the transaction is insurable.
Wendy Walter | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA and OR
McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
d. 206.596.4844 | f. 206.780.6862 | c. 425.241.5459
e. <mailto:wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com> wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com
Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas ? Washington
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error, please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve the originals from you at no charge.
Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:41 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
I am going to ask this question simply because times and statutes change.
I have a client whose sister died owning a home. The Will gives the home to the surviving sister and the brother. Everyone is in good accord.
I am unaware of any other process besides the probate process to transfer the property to the heirs (brother and sister) through a Personal Representative Deed. Is there an alternative way to do this?
I was going to call my local title company but I remember there are a few of you on this list serve.
Thank you.
Jim Doran
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com
www.doranlegal.com
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Message: 11
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 09:50:27 -0800
From: Jim Doran <jim at doranlegal.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Message-ID:
<CANk51bCPwhoiWLbnio1fX92GYqWJimYTzpHjDYuw80evWSkMiA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I'll make an appointment with my local title officer. It seems cleaner to
do a probate and get the title transferred. But I will see what the "gods
of real estate" say.
Jim
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com
www.doranlegal.com
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Rob Wilson-Hoss <rob at hctc.com> wrote:
> The statutory lack of probate affidavit gets you through the Treasurer on
> a sale. It does not transfer title. If you want to transfer title, you talk
> to your favorite title examiner and see what they need in their own lack of
> probate affidavits, which are enough to allow them to insure title. But you
> should be prepared for being able to show that there are no issues as to
> the proper successor title holders, and no debt, and that this will
> probably require an indemnification by the heir sellers. This is from John
> McCrady's post of January 13:
>
>
>
> The lack of probate affidavit does not transfer the title; if it is the
> title company?s affidavit, it is used to convince the title company to
> insure title in the wife notwithstanding the lack of a probate.
>
> If it is the department of revenue?s affidavit, it is used to establish
> that no excise tax is owed on the ?conveyance? from husband to wife.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
> Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP
> 236 West Birch Street
> Shelton, WA 98584
> 360 426-2999 <(360)%20426-2999>
>
> www.hossandwilson-hoss.com <http://www.hossandwilsonhoss.com>
> rob at hctc.com
>
>
>
> *This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, you are
> hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is
> strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify
> us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed
> above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its
> attachments. Thank you.*
>
>
>
> *This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to
> collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. *To
> the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. ?
> 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the
> condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to
> it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have
> the right to seek advice of legal counsel.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Wendy Walter
> *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
>
>
>
> You might want to consider a lack of probate affidavit.
> http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/forms/RealEstExcsTx/Lackofprobateaffidavit.pdf
>
>
>
> The forms for these vary depending on the title company, but I would
> definitely consult with one in order to ensure the transaction is
> insurable.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Wendy Walter* | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA
> and OR
>
> McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
>
> m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
>
> d. 206.596.4844 <(206)%20596-4844> | f. 206.780.6862
> <(206)%20780-6862> | c. 425.241.5459 <(425)%20241-5459>
>
> e. wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com
>
> Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas
> ? Washington
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged
> and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is
> confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited
> from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this
> transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error,
> please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve
> the originals from you at no charge.
>
> Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office
> could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any
> information obtained will be used for that purpose.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jim Doran
> *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2017 8:41 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
>
>
>
> I am going to ask this question simply because times and statutes change.
>
> I have a client whose sister died owning a home. The Will gives the home
> to the surviving sister and the brother. Everyone is in good accord.
>
> I am unaware of any other process besides the probate process to transfer
> the property to the heirs (brother and sister) through a Personal
> Representative Deed. Is there an alternative way to do this?
>
> I was going to call my local title company but I remember there are a few
> of you on this list serve.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jim Doran
>
>
>
> James R. Doran
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
>
> Bellingham, WA 98225
> (360)393-9506 <(360)%20393-9506>
>
> jim at doranlegal.com
>
> www.doranlegal.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
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Message: 12
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 10:17:03 -0800
From: John McCrady <j.mccrady at pstitle.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Message-ID:
<A8106026B40C9544A17DC5E44A2003EE01E62A2E1924 at PSTMAILV.pstitle.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Doing a probate is cleaner and more provides more certainty to your client.
However the title industry does sometimes agree to insure in this situation without probate. Since title passes at death to the heirs and devisees, we do ask for a lack of probate affidavit disclosing who the heirs and devisees are. In this case the will left the property to the brother and sister, but the title company will also want deeds from any other heirs (those who would inherit were there no will). Also, in situations where title passes to other than a surviving spouse, most title companies? rate schedule would require an increased premium for insuring without probate. Depending on the value of the property that can be an expensive proposition.
A talk with your favorite title officer will help
John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
5350 Orchard Street West
University Place WA 98466
253-476-5721
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 9:50 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
I'll make an appointment with my local title officer. It seems cleaner to do a probate and get the title transferred. But I will see what the "gods of real estate" say.
Jim
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Rob Wilson-Hoss <rob at hctc.com<mailto:rob at hctc.com>> wrote:
The statutory lack of probate affidavit gets you through the Treasurer on a sale. It does not transfer title. If you want to transfer title, you talk to your favorite title examiner and see what they need in their own lack of probate affidavits, which are enough to allow them to insure title. But you should be prepared for being able to show that there are no issues as to the proper successor title holders, and no debt, and that this will probably require an indemnification by the heir sellers. This is from John McCrady's post of January 13:
The lack of probate affidavit does not transfer the title; if it is the title company?s affidavit, it is used to convince the title company to insure title in the wife notwithstanding the lack of a probate.
If it is the department of revenue?s affidavit, it is used to establish that no excise tax is owed on the ?conveyance? from husband to wife.
Rob
Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP
236 West Birch Street
Shelton, WA 98584
360 426-2999<tel:(360)%20426-2999>
www.hossandwilson-hoss.com<http://www.hossandwilsonhoss.com>
rob at hctc.com<mailto:rob at hctc.com>
This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments. Thank you.
This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. ? 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] On Behalf Of Wendy Walter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
You might want to consider a lack of probate affidavit. http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/forms/RealEstExcsTx/Lackofprobateaffidavit.pdf
The forms for these vary depending on the title company, but I would definitely consult with one in order to ensure the transaction is insurable.
Wendy Walter | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA and OR
McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
d. 206.596.4844<tel:(206)%20596-4844> | f. 206.780.6862<tel:(206)%20780-6862> | c. 425.241.5459<tel:(425)%20241-5459>
e. wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com<mailto:wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com>
Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas ? Washington
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error, please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve the originals from you at no charge.
Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:41 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
I am going to ask this question simply because times and statutes change.
I have a client whose sister died owning a home. The Will gives the home to the surviving sister and the brother. Everyone is in good accord.
I am unaware of any other process besides the probate process to transfer the property to the heirs (brother and sister) through a Personal Representative Deed. Is there an alternative way to do this?
I was going to call my local title company but I remember there are a few of you on this list serve.
Thank you.
Jim Doran
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506<tel:(360)%20393-9506>
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>
_______________________________________________
WSBARP mailing list
WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 10:44:53 -0800
From: Jim Doran <jim at doranlegal.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Message-ID:
<CANk51bAZbC2auwEbNsmdS0=LhDqG4_FcdFzjghvCHr5d+ews3g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Yes.
And there is another bank account that would need a Small Estate
Affidavit. and it is Bank of America who we have found to be less than
cooperative. Put all the costs and time together and a simple probate
might be easier and less expensive.
Thank you for the input.
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com
www.doranlegal.com
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:17 AM, John McCrady <j.mccrady at pstitle.com>
wrote:
> Doing a probate is cleaner and more provides more certainty to your client.
>
> However the title industry does sometimes agree to insure in this
> situation without probate. Since title passes at death to the heirs and
> devisees, we do ask for a lack of probate affidavit disclosing who the
> heirs and devisees are. In this case the will left the property to the
> brother and sister, but the title company will also want deeds from any
> other heirs (those who would inherit were there no will). Also, in
> situations where title passes to other than a surviving spouse, most title
> companies? rate schedule would require an increased premium for insuring
> without probate. Depending on the value of the property that can be an
> expensive proposition.
>
> A talk with your favorite title officer will help
>
>
>
> John McCrady
>
> Counsel
>
> Puget Sound Title Company
>
> 5350 Orchard Street West
>
> University Place WA 98466
>
> 253-476-5721 <(253)%20476-5721>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Jim Doran
> *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2017 9:50 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
>
>
>
> I'll make an appointment with my local title officer. It seems cleaner to
> do a probate and get the title transferred. But I will see what the "gods
> of real estate" say.
>
> Jim
>
>
> James R. Doran
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
>
> Bellingham, WA 98225
> (360)393-9506 <(360)%20393-9506>
>
> jim at doranlegal.com
>
> www.doranlegal.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Rob Wilson-Hoss <rob at hctc.com> wrote:
>
> The statutory lack of probate affidavit gets you through the Treasurer on
> a sale. It does not transfer title. If you want to transfer title, you talk
> to your favorite title examiner and see what they need in their own lack of
> probate affidavits, which are enough to allow them to insure title. But you
> should be prepared for being able to show that there are no issues as to
> the proper successor title holders, and no debt, and that this will
> probably require an indemnification by the heir sellers. This is from John
> McCrady's post of January 13:
>
>
>
> The lack of probate affidavit does not transfer the title; if it is the
> title company?s affidavit, it is used to convince the title company to
> insure title in the wife notwithstanding the lack of a probate.
>
> If it is the department of revenue?s affidavit, it is used to establish
> that no excise tax is owed on the ?conveyance? from husband to wife.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
>
>
> Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
> Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP
> 236 West Birch Street
> Shelton, WA 98584
> 360 426-2999 <(360)%20426-2999>
>
> www.hossandwilson-hoss.com <http://www.hossandwilsonhoss.com>
> rob at hctc.com
>
>
>
> *This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may
> contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from
> disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, you are
> hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is
> strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify
> us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed
> above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its
> attachments. Thank you.*
>
>
>
> *This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to
> collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. *To
> the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. ?
> 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the
> condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to
> it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have
> the right to seek advice of legal counsel.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Wendy Walter
> *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
>
>
>
> You might want to consider a lack of probate affidavit.
> http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/forms/RealEstExcsTx/Lackofprobateaffidavit.pdf
>
>
>
> The forms for these vary depending on the title company, but I would
> definitely consult with one in order to ensure the transaction is
> insurable.
>
>
>
>
>
> *Wendy Walter* | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA
> and OR
>
> McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
>
> m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
>
> d. 206.596.4844 <(206)%20596-4844> | f. 206.780.6862
> <(206)%20780-6862> | c. 425.241.5459 <(425)%20241-5459>
>
> e. wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com
>
> Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas
> ? Washington
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged
> and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is
> confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited
> from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this
> transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error,
> please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve
> the originals from you at no charge.
>
> Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office
> could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any
> information obtained will be used for that purpose.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.
> wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Jim Doran
> *Sent:* Friday, February 24, 2017 8:41 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
>
>
>
> I am going to ask this question simply because times and statutes change.
>
> I have a client whose sister died owning a home. The Will gives the home
> to the surviving sister and the brother. Everyone is in good accord.
>
> I am unaware of any other process besides the probate process to transfer
> the property to the heirs (brother and sister) through a Personal
> Representative Deed. Is there an alternative way to do this?
>
> I was going to call my local title company but I remember there are a few
> of you on this list serve.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Jim Doran
>
>
>
> James R. Doran
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
>
> Bellingham, WA 98225
> (360)393-9506 <(360)%20393-9506>
>
> jim at doranlegal.com
>
> www.doranlegal.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
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Message: 14
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 18:48:37 +0000
From: Roger Hawkes <Roger at law-hawks.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBARP] boundary disputes
Message-ID:
<693DA7DDC963424895D6BBD758595A2169E8B360 at HLFSERVER1.law-hawks.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Boundary disputes are notoriously expensive to litigate about; neighbors often go to war over a few inches of dirt. If the parties agree on a line, papering that with a survey, deed, and bla and title insurance approval etc. is itself an expensive undertaking. What is the members' experience and caveats regarding settlement by easement grant?
Roger Hawkes, WSBA 5173
19909 Ballinger Way NE
Shoreline, WA 98155
www.hawkeslawfirm.com<http://www.hawkeslawfirm.com/>
206 367 5000 voice
206 367 4005 fax
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Message: 15
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:26:15 +0000
From: "Douglas W. Scott" <doug at davisscottlaw.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] boundary disputes
Message-ID:
<B53EA1F6F4C2654690E6CD24624688BA6CACBACE at mbx031-e1-va-2.exch031.domain.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Roger,
I recently prepared an agreement to shift the boundary line to a newly built fence line. There were a series of emails on this listserve around January 18 on this topic. See RCW 58.04.007.
Douglas W. Scott
Law Offices of Douglas W. Scott
Windermere Building
1810 15th Place NW, Suite 203
Issaquah, Washington, 98027
V. 425.392.8550
F. 425-392-2829
www.davisscottlaw.com<http://www.davisscottlaw.com/>
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Roger Hawkes
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 10:49 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: [WSBARP] boundary disputes
Boundary disputes are notoriously expensive to litigate about; neighbors often go to war over a few inches of dirt. If the parties agree on a line, papering that with a survey, deed, and bla and title insurance approval etc. is itself an expensive undertaking. What is the members' experience and caveats regarding settlement by easement grant?
Roger Hawkes, WSBA 5173
19909 Ballinger Way NE
Shoreline, WA 98155
www.hawkeslawfirm.com<http://www.hawkeslawfirm.com/>
206 367 5000 voice
206 367 4005 fax
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------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 19:27:14 +0000
From: Marcus Fry <mfry at lyon-law.com>
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Message-ID:
<BN4PR14MB04974F01E34D7544AB6F1142F6520 at BN4PR14MB0497.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I agree with John about cleaner. I encountered a situation where heir signed an lack of probate affidavit stating that he was the only child, when she had 7 other siblings and title company insured transaction and sale. Colossal mess especially because the one child then died! In that situation, I could see an attorney being sued if they had prepared the affidavit for the child that included the misrepresentations.
Marcus J. Fry
Lyon, Weigand & Gustafson, P.S.
Confidentiality: This e-mail transmission may contain information which is protected by attorney-client, work product and/or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, or taking of any action in reliance on the contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us immediately and return the e-mail to us by choosing Reply (or the corresponding function on your e-mail system) and then deleting the e-mail.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of John McCrady
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 10:17 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
Doing a probate is cleaner and more provides more certainty to your client.
However the title industry does sometimes agree to insure in this situation without probate. Since title passes at death to the heirs and devisees, we do ask for a lack of probate affidavit disclosing who the heirs and devisees are. In this case the will left the property to the brother and sister, but the title company will also want deeds from any other heirs (those who would inherit were there no will). Also, in situations where title passes to other than a surviving spouse, most title companies? rate schedule would require an increased premium for insuring without probate. Depending on the value of the property that can be an expensive proposition.
A talk with your favorite title officer will help
John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
5350 Orchard Street West
University Place WA 98466
253-476-5721
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 9:50 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
I'll make an appointment with my local title officer. It seems cleaner to do a probate and get the title transferred. But I will see what the "gods of real estate" say.
Jim
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 9:28 AM, Rob Wilson-Hoss <rob at hctc.com<mailto:rob at hctc.com>> wrote:
The statutory lack of probate affidavit gets you through the Treasurer on a sale. It does not transfer title. If you want to transfer title, you talk to your favorite title examiner and see what they need in their own lack of probate affidavits, which are enough to allow them to insure title. But you should be prepared for being able to show that there are no issues as to the proper successor title holders, and no debt, and that this will probably require an indemnification by the heir sellers. This is from John McCrady's post of January 13:
The lack of probate affidavit does not transfer the title; if it is the title company?s affidavit, it is used to convince the title company to insure title in the wife notwithstanding the lack of a probate.
If it is the department of revenue?s affidavit, it is used to establish that no excise tax is owed on the ?conveyance? from husband to wife.
Rob
Robert D. Wilson-Hoss
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP
236 West Birch Street
Shelton, WA 98584
360 426-2999<tel:(360)%20426-2999>
www.hossandwilson-hoss.com<http://www.hossandwilsonhoss.com>
rob at hctc.com<mailto:rob at hctc.com>
This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments. Thank you.
This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose. To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. ? 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] On Behalf Of Wendy Walter
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:50 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
You might want to consider a lack of probate affidavit. http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/forms/RealEstExcsTx/Lackofprobateaffidavit.pdf
The forms for these vary depending on the title company, but I would definitely consult with one in order to ensure the transaction is insurable.
Wendy Walter | Partner - Pacific Northwest | Member State Bars of WA and OR
McCarthy ? Holthus LLP
m. 108 1st Ave. S., Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98104
d. 206.596.4844<tel:(206)%20596-4844> | f. 206.780.6862<tel:(206)%20780-6862> | c. 425.241.5459<tel:(425)%20241-5459>
e. wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com<mailto:wwalter at mccarthyholthus.com>
Arizona ? California ? Colorado ? Idaho ? Nevada ? New Mexico ? Oregon ? Texas ? Washington
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained herein may be privileged and protected by the attorney/client and/or other privilege. It is confidential in nature and intended for use by the intended addressee only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby expressly prohibited from dissemination distribution, copy or any use whatsoever of this transmission and its contents. If you receive this transmission in error, please reply or call the sender and arrangements will be made to retrieve the originals from you at no charge.
Federal law requires us to advise you that communication with our office could be interpreted as an attempt to collect a debt and that any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 8:41 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: [WSBARP] Probate or not to probate
I am going to ask this question simply because times and statutes change.
I have a client whose sister died owning a home. The Will gives the home to the surviving sister and the brother. Everyone is in good accord.
I am unaware of any other process besides the probate process to transfer the property to the heirs (brother and sister) through a Personal Representative Deed. Is there an alternative way to do this?
I was going to call my local title company but I remember there are a few of you on this list serve.
Thank you.
Jim Doran
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street - Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506<tel:(360)%20393-9506>
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>
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End of WSBARP Digest, Vol 29, Issue 15
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