[WSBARP] Special Needs Trusts

[Barbara Byram]

Greetings;

My recollection of the phrase is:  pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.  Meaning is the same and who wants their kids in control of a $2 million estate?  Have the PC look at the options between private pay and Medicaid pay—

My $.02,

Barbara J. Byram
Attorney at Law
Dussault Law Group
2722 Eastlake Avenue East, Suite 200
Seattle, WA 98102
Ph. Seattle:   206.324.4300 x114
Ph. Mercer Island:  206.324.4300
Fax. 206.324.3106
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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 10:31 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Special Needs Trusts

These trusts have their place,,, but a $2,000,000 estate?.. what is the phrase?  pigs get fat hogs get butchered.

From: Paul Neumiller<mailto:pneumiller at hotmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2016 9:34 AM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Special Needs Trusts

I’ve only had to address one of these and the surviving spouse was shocked to learn that he had to go to his eldest son (trustee) to get money all of the time.  He thought he and his deceased wife were cleverly “avoiding the Medicaid problem” (btw, they had an estate over $2m).  He was flabbergasted to learn that he had handed control of his wealth over to his eldest son.  He was equally an unhappy camper when I suggested that he might have to go to all of his children (the beneficiaries of the trust) to sign a TEDRA agreement to unring the bell and terminate the trust.



From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Tuesday, March 8, 2016 9:19 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Special Needs Trusts

Well, in an irrevocable special needs trust the beneficiaries do receive benefits, as allowed in the Trust, but this is at the discretion of the Trustee and cannot be demanded by the beneficiary.  That is what protects the corpus.
The ultimate beneficiaries, once the Trustors die, will be one or more of the surviving children.
I thought that as long as the beneficiaries cannot demand and get the assets, the assets are protected from the Medicaid spend-down provisions.  No????

James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>

On Tue, Mar 8, 2016 at 8:54 AM, Ronald St. Hilaire <rfs at licbs.com<mailto:rfs at licbs.com>> wrote:
If the clients (man and wife in your scenario) will be beneficiaries of the trust, then it is an available resource for Medicaid spend down purposes.  See WAC 182-516-0100.


________________________________
Ronald F. St. Hilaire · Attorney at Law
Liebler, Connor, Berry & St. Hilaire
1141 N. Edison, Suite C · Kennewick, WA  99336
(509) 735-3581<tel:%28509%29%20735-3581> office · (509) 735-3585<tel:%28509%29%20735-3585> fax
rfs at licbs.com<mailto:rfs at licbs.com> · www.bentonfranklinlaw.com<http://www.bentonfranklinlaw.com>
[lcbs.gif]

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 7:25 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: [WSBARP] Special Needs Trusts

Hello Trust Attorneys:
I have done many Special Needs Trusts for clients with "special needs", usually diabilities of some sort.  the purpose of the Trust is to give some assistance to the beneficiary but to not violate or avoid any of their public assistance benefits.  That's pretty simple.
Now I have a client, man and wife, asking me to do a similar Trust to protect their assets from the medicaid spend-down provisions.  I have thought about it for a while and can't see why the same basic format wouldn't work for that purpose.
Of course the hard part if for them to actually "irrevocably" transfer the assets into the Trust and to "trust" the Trustee.
It would seem to me that the Trustee would have discretion to spend Trust assets/money for the benefit of the beneficiaries without much restriction until one of them is receiving medical treatment or other care that could be paid by Medicaid.  The Trustee would have to be careful not to have assets in the hands of the clients that are valued at more than the Medicaid allowance.
It would also seem that the Trustee would not be an institutional trustee but rather someone close to the clients whom they trust.  Same with Successor Trustee.
AmI on the right tract here?
Thank you.

James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506<tel:%28360%29393-9506>
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>

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