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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of wsbapt-request@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-request@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 11 August 2026 12:00:03<br>
<b>To:</b> wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> WSBAPT Digest, Vol 143, Issue 10</font>
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<div class="PlainText">Send WSBAPT mailing list submissions to<br>
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Referral for Trust Litigation (David Faber)<br>
2. Re: WSBAPT Digest, Vol 143, Issue 7 (Marcus Fry)<br>
3. Re: Referral for Trust Litigation (Diane Kiepe)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 14:54:34 -0700<br>
From: David Faber <david@faberfeinson.com><br>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Referral for Trust Litigation<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CAKkD=wj+5AhrYb1wpnb-0qKuA4zq-wjTZ+nPzeuMfjfONbxKbA@mail.gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
<br>
I am in need of a referral to handle some trust litigation. My client<br>
adopted a child who is a beneficiary of a trust. The trust's "professional"<br>
trustee has held the entire trust corpus (hundreds of thousands) in cash,<br>
failing to invest or seek any returns on the assets in what appears to me<br>
to be a clear breach of their fiduciary obligations under the prudent<br>
investor rule (by my calculations over the last seven years, the trustee<br>
could have more than doubled the value of the original trust estate simply<br>
by investing in an S&P tracking fund, for instance). The beneficiary (and<br>
potential client) is a young adult who is seeking (a) to remove and replace<br>
the trustee and (b) possibly sue for damages due to the current trustee's<br>
breach of fiduciary obligations. The client lives in Port Townsend.<br>
<br>
Self-referrals are great!<br>
<br>
Thank you!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
David J. Faber<br>
Faber Feinson PLLC<br>
800 Polk Street, Suite B<br>
Port Townsend, WA 98368<br>
(360) 379-4110<br>
<br>
*** NOTICE: ATTORNEY CLIENT COMMUNICATION - PRIVILEGED & CONFIDENTIAL.<br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 22:22:18 +0000<br>
From: Marcus Fry <MFry@hawleytroxell.com><br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] WSBAPT Digest, Vol 143, Issue 7<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<DS4PPF78EA5AEBE9487981CE471E81C9FEDCFDE2@DS4PPF78EA5AEBE.NAMP221.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
<br>
I disagree that the requirements imposed on third party and unrelated PRs are reasonable if all the beneficiaries of an estate agree to no bond, NIP, venue selection, etc. Their rights as heirs are being infringed upon. I understand that the biggest issue
stems from attorney John B. Elliott and some 200 probates he handled. From what I know, the heirs never received notice of probate let alone notice of the transactions that he was engaging in, which is why more rules were needed regarding notice. However,
what I think what we are trying to communicate is that if the heirs are aware and consent in writing to the appointment of a particular person who is not on the approved list, e.g. ex-spouse, stepchild, family friend, etc., this should not be prohibited.
If the AG's position that should not be allowed even if they consent in writing, you might as well know that now, so not to waste any additional time in seeking their blessing, and we can just take the proposed changes up with<br>
our local legislators.<br>
<br>
I should point out to the AG, we (the attorneys) are trying to keep things inexpensive for future clients. We could just keep our mouths closed as we stand to make a whole lot more money on intestate estates under this law.<br>
<br>
-Marcus<br>
Hawley Troxell<br>
Yakima, WA.<br>
<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Robert West<br>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2026 12:22 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] WSBAPT Digest, Vol 143, Issue 7<br>
<br>
* NOTICE: EXTERNAL EMAIL *<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
I fully concur with the comments and analysis of Chris Neil. Probates are about 30% of my practice. I don't have actual cost numbers available at this time but in my opinion the minimum costs for a "simple" NIP probate will at least triple for clients. I
currently have such a probate in which the heirs are three brothers. There is noting complicated about it and involves a single parcel of real estate. However, I truly believe the legal administration costs will significantly exceed the average costs in recent
years. I also believe the new requirements imposed on third party and unrelated PRs are understandable and reasonable.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards, Bob<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
ROBERT E.WEST, JR.<br>
<br>
WEST LAW OFFICES, P.S.<br>
<br>
332 1st Street NE<br>
<br>
Auburn WA 98002<br>
<br>
Telephone: 253-351-9000<br>
<br>
Facsimile: 253-833-5322<br>
<br>
E-Mail: rwest@westlawoffices.com<mailto:rwest@westlawoffices.com><br>
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.WestLawOffices.com<http://www.WestLawOffices.com>">www.WestLawOffices.com<http://www.WestLawOffices.com></a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----Original Message-----<br>
From: wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of wsbapt-request@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-request@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2026 12:00 PM<br>
To: wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: WSBAPT Digest, Vol 143, Issue 7<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
1. NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention (Brent Williams-Ruth)<br>
<br>
2. Re: NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention (Christopher Neil)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2026 14:18:14 -0700<br>
<br>
From: Brent Williams-Ruth <brent@williams-ruthlaw.com<mailto:brent@williams-ruthlaw.com>><br>
<br>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com>><br>
<br>
Subject: [WSBAPT] NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention<br>
<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<br>
<CAMMb1JNsKApUEOS7gG06YgOyMwv27A=kpb9G7RzhwCNkn7erqA@mail.gmail.com<mailto:CAMMb1JNsKApUEOS7gG06YgOyMwv27A=kpb9G7RzhwCNkn7erqA@mail.gmail.com>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Listmates -<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I have led a very sheltered life in my practice. It has grown slowly over the last 11 years and though I have had over 500 probates, every single one has thus far been with NIP.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
My talk with the AGO today was....challenging. I need data. They are going to be very hard to convince to made adjustments because they see nothing but scoundrel attorneys who are scamming innocent intestate estates.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Right now - what I need is example of what an NIP probate costs for you/your firm vs. Full Intervention.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
One of the members on the zoom didn't even truly understand what the difference was between the two.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Appreciate any data points. I will not put any names to these figures unless expressly told that I can.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
*Brent Williams-Ruth* (pronouns: he/him)<br>
<br>
*Attorney-At-Law*<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
*Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, **a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC*<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
*Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003*<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
*Mailing Address: **PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063 *<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
For All Meetings & Scheduling: info@williams-ruthlaw.com<mailto:info@williams-ruthlaw.com><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
e-mail <Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com<mailto:Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com>> / website <<a href="http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/<http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/">http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/<http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/</a>>> / facebook <<a href="http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw<http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw">http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw<http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw</a>>>
/<br>
<br>
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Message: 2<br>
<br>
Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2026 16:24:49 -0700<br>
<br>
From: Christopher Neil <chris.neil@neillaw.com<mailto:chris.neil@neillaw.com>><br>
<br>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com>><br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention<br>
<br>
Message-ID: <834708F3-E6D0-4427-A3F2-32AA84AC3ACB@neillaw.com<mailto:834708F3-E6D0-4427-A3F2-32AA84AC3ACB@neillaw.com>><br>
<br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Brent and Listmates,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Yes, I think WAPG can help provide data.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A nonintervention probate and a full-intervention probate are not economically comparable.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Without nonintervention powers, many routine decisions become a process: notice, pleadings, declarations, publications, waiting period, proposed orders, hearings, objections, mandatory return hearings, continuances, and then implementation of whatever the court
authorizes.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Real estate is the clearest example.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
A PR with nonintervention powers can generally list property, evaluate offers, exercise fiduciary judgment, and close. A PR without nonintervention powers is back in Chapter 11.56: petition, appraisal, required publication(s), waiting period, upset bids, statutory
sale procedures, filed return of sale, confirmation pleadings, notice, a hearing, and the 90% of appraised value rule for private sales.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
That is not a name change; it is a different case.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Guardianship attorneys who handled guardianship real-estate sales before UGA know exactly what this costs. Former RCW 11.92.090 required guardians to use the RCW 11.56 court-supervised process for real-property sales. The Legislature dropped that in the UGA,
but it is still there in the full-intervention probate world.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The same is true on annual reporting and probate closing. RCW 11.68.090 exempts a PR with nonintervention powers from the reporting procedures in RCW 11.76.010 through .080. A full-intervention probate brings those procedures back into the case, making to comparable
to a conservatorship.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I understand the policy concern when a stranger seeks appointment in an intestate estate with no prior relationship to the decedent or the family. Totally agree that caution is warranted there. But the same risk does not exist from a licensed or certified professional
fiduciary.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
EHB 2445 will be turning the intestate probate into something that looks like a Washington conservatorship circa 2019: extra process and attorneys? fees, not because anyone is doing anything wrong, but because the process itself requires much more lawyer and
fiduciary time.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
To be clear, sometimes court supervision is exactly what a case needs. I have a case right now in which full intervention makes sense because over time we realized the parties need a neutral decision-maker and the fiduciary needs the protection of court orders.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Protection has a price (cost to the heirs).<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So if the AGO is evaluating this on the assumption that removing nonintervention powers merely changes the label on the probate, that assumption needs correction.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
It fundamentally changes the manner, timing, and cost of administration.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Chris Neil | Attorney | Neil & Neil, P.S.<br>
<br>
5302 Pacific Avenue, Tacoma, WA 98408 | Chris.Neil@NeilLaw.com<mailto:Chris.Neil@NeilLaw.com><br>
<br>
(253)475-8600 | f:(253)473-5746<br>
<br>
So that you know: This email address is not continuously monitored. So, if your matter is urgent, please phone my office.<br>
<br>
Also, this message is not encrypted. Therefore, it may not be secure. This message and attachments are confidential and may contain privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by email or 253-475-8600
and delete this message from your information system. Further use, disclosure, or copying of information in this email is not authorized, and receipt by anyone other than the named recipient is not a waiver of any attorney-client, work product, or other applicable
privilege; or other confidentiality protections. Thank you.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> On Aug 7, 2026, at 2:18?PM, Brent Williams-Ruth <brent@williams-ruthlaw.com<mailto:brent@williams-ruthlaw.com>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Listmates -<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> I have led a very sheltered life in my practice. It has grown slowly over the last 11 years and though I have had over 500 probates, every single one has thus far been with NIP.<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> My talk with the AGO today was....challenging. I need data. They are going to be very hard to convince to made adjustments because they see nothing but scoundrel attorneys who are scamming innocent intestate estates.<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Right now - what I need is example of what an NIP probate costs for you/your firm vs. Full Intervention.<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> One of the members on the zoom didn't even truly understand what the difference was between the two.<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Appreciate any data points. I will not put any names to these figures unless expressly told that I can.<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Brent Williams-Ruth (pronouns: he/him) Attorney-At-Law<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Mailing Address: PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> For All Meetings & Scheduling: info@williams-ruthlaw.com<mailto:info@williams-ruthlaw.com><br>
<br>
> <<a href="mailto:info@williams-ruthlaw.com">mailto:info@williams-ruthlaw.com</a>><br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
> e-mail <<a href="mailto:Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com">mailto:Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com</a>> / website<br>
<br>
> <<a href="http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/<http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/">http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/<http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/</a>>> / facebook<br>
<br>
> <<a href="http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw<http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw">http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw<http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw</a>>> /<br>
<br>
><br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2026 15:28:43 -0700<br>
From: Diane Kiepe <diane@kiepelaw.com><br>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Referral for Trust Litigation<br>
Message-ID:<br>
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<br>
David,<br>
<br>
You probably will find someone closer in location but in case you don't, I<br>
do enjoy this type of work.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Diane Kiepe<br>
Kiepe Estate and Probate, PLLC<br>
diane@kiepelaw.com<br>
200 N. Mullan Rd., Suite 203<br>
Spokane Valley, WA 99206<br>
509-808-2087<br>
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<br>
On Mon, Aug 10, 2026 at 2:55?PM David Faber <david@faberfeinson.com> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Hi All,<br>
><br>
> I am in need of a referral to handle some trust litigation. My client<br>
> adopted a child who is a beneficiary of a trust. The trust's "professional"<br>
> trustee has held the entire trust corpus (hundreds of thousands) in cash,<br>
> failing to invest or seek any returns on the assets in what appears to me<br>
> to be a clear breach of their fiduciary obligations under the prudent<br>
> investor rule (by my calculations over the last seven years, the trustee<br>
> could have more than doubled the value of the original trust estate simply<br>
> by investing in an S&P tracking fund, for instance). The beneficiary (and<br>
> potential client) is a young adult who is seeking (a) to remove and replace<br>
> the trustee and (b) possibly sue for damages due to the current trustee's<br>
> breach of fiduciary obligations. The client lives in Port Townsend.<br>
><br>
> Self-referrals are great!<br>
><br>
> Thank you!<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
> David J. Faber<br>
> Faber Feinson PLLC<br>
> 800 Polk Street, Suite B<br>
> Port Townsend, WA 98368<br>
> (360) 379-4110<br>
><br>
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