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<p class="MsoPlainText">I fully concur with the comments and analysis of Chris Neil. Probates are about 30% of my practice. I don't have actual cost numbers available at this time but in my opinion the minimum costs for a "simple" NIP probate will at least
triple for clients. I currently have such a probate in which the heirs are three brothers. There is noting complicated about it and involves a single parcel of real estate. However, I truly believe the legal administration costs will significantly exceed
the average costs in recent years. I also believe the new requirements imposed on third party and unrelated PRs are understandable and reasonable.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Regards, Bob<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">ROBERT E.WEST, JR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">WEST LAW OFFICES, P.S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">332 1st Street NE<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Auburn WA 98002<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Telephone: 253-351-9000<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Website: www.WestLawOffices.com<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText">Today's Topics:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> 1. NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention (Brent Williams-Ruth)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> 2. Re: NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention (Christopher Neil)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">----------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Message: 1<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2026 14:18:14 -0700<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">From: Brent Williams-Ruth <<a href="mailto:brent@williams-ruthlaw.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">brent@williams-ruthlaw.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <<a href="mailto:WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">WSBAPT@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Subject: [WSBAPT] NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Message-ID:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"> <<a href="mailto:CAMMb1JNsKApUEOS7gG06YgOyMwv27A=kpb9G7RzhwCNkn7erqA@mail.gmail.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">CAMMb1JNsKApUEOS7gG06YgOyMwv27A=kpb9G7RzhwCNkn7erqA@mail.gmail.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Listmates -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I have led a very sheltered life in my practice. It has grown slowly over the last 11 years and though I have had over 500 probates, every single one has thus far been with NIP.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">My talk with the AGO today was....challenging. I need data. They are going to be very hard to convince to made adjustments because they see nothing but scoundrel attorneys who are scamming innocent intestate estates.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Right now - what I need is example of what an NIP probate costs for you/your firm vs. Full Intervention.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">One of the members on the zoom didn't even truly understand what the difference was between the two.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Appreciate any data points. I will not put any names to these figures unless expressly told that I can.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">*Brent Williams-Ruth* (pronouns: he/him)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">*Attorney-At-Law*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">*Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, **a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">*Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003*<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">*Mailing Address: **PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063 *<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">For All Meetings & Scheduling: <a href="mailto:info@williams-ruthlaw.com">
<span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">info@williams-ruthlaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">e-mail <<a href="mailto:Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com</span></a>> / website <<a href="http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/</span></a>>
/ facebook <<a href="http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw</span></a>> /<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText">------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Message: 2<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2026 16:24:49 -0700<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">From: Christopher Neil <<a href="mailto:chris.neil@neillaw.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">chris.neil@neillaw.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] NEED DATA - NIP vs Full Intervention<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:834708F3-E6D0-4427-A3F2-32AA84AC3ACB@neillaw.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">834708F3-E6D0-4427-A3F2-32AA84AC3ACB@neillaw.com</span></a>><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Brent and Listmates,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Yes, I think WAPG can help provide data.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">A nonintervention probate and a full-intervention probate are not economically comparable.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Without nonintervention powers, many routine decisions become a process: notice, pleadings, declarations, publications, waiting period, proposed orders, hearings, objections, mandatory return hearings, continuances, and then implementation
of whatever the court authorizes.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Real estate is the clearest example.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">A PR with nonintervention powers can generally list property, evaluate offers, exercise fiduciary judgment, and close. A PR without nonintervention powers is back in Chapter 11.56: petition, appraisal, required publication(s), waiting
period, upset bids, statutory sale procedures, filed return of sale, confirmation pleadings, notice, a hearing, and the 90% of appraised value rule for private sales.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">That is not a name change; it is a different case.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Guardianship attorneys who handled guardianship real-estate sales before UGA know exactly what this costs. Former RCW 11.92.090 required guardians to use the RCW 11.56 court-supervised process for real-property sales. The Legislature
dropped that in the UGA, but it is still there in the full-intervention probate world.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">The same is true on annual reporting and probate closing. RCW 11.68.090 exempts a PR with nonintervention powers from the reporting procedures in RCW 11.76.010 through .080. A full-intervention probate brings those procedures back into
the case, making to comparable to a conservatorship.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">I understand the policy concern when a stranger seeks appointment in an intestate estate with no prior relationship to the decedent or the family. Totally agree that caution is warranted there. But the same risk does not exist from a
licensed or certified professional fiduciary.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">EHB 2445 will be turning the intestate probate into something that looks like a Washington conservatorship circa 2019: extra process and attorneys? fees, not because anyone is doing anything wrong, but because the process itself requires
much more lawyer and fiduciary time.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">To be clear, sometimes court supervision is exactly what a case needs. I have a case right now in which full intervention makes sense because over time we realized the parties need a neutral decision-maker and the fiduciary needs the
protection of court orders.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Protection has a price (cost to the heirs).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">So if the AGO is evaluating this on the assumption that removing nonintervention powers merely changes the label on the probate, that assumption needs correction.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">It fundamentally changes the manner, timing, and cost of administration.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">Chris Neil | Attorney | Neil & Neil, P.S.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">5302 Pacific Avenue, Tacoma, WA 98408 | <a href="mailto:Chris.Neil@NeilLaw.com">
<span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">Chris.Neil@NeilLaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">(253)475-8600 | f:(253)473-5746<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">So that you know: This email address is not continuously monitored. So, if your matter is urgent, please phone my office.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoPlainText">> On Aug 7, 2026, at 2:18?PM, Brent Williams-Ruth <<a href="mailto:brent@williams-ruthlaw.com"><span style="color:#17365D;text-decoration:none">brent@williams-ruthlaw.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Listmates -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> I have led a very sheltered life in my practice. It has grown slowly over the last 11 years and though I have had over 500 probates, every single one has thus far been with NIP.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> My talk with the AGO today was....challenging. I need data. They are going to be very hard to convince to made adjustments because they see nothing but scoundrel attorneys who are scamming innocent intestate estates.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Right now - what I need is example of what an NIP probate costs for you/your firm vs. Full Intervention.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> One of the members on the zoom didn't even truly understand what the difference was between the two.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Appreciate any data points. I will not put any names to these figures unless expressly told that I can.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Brent Williams-Ruth (pronouns: he/him) Attorney-At-Law<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Mailing Address: PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoPlainText">> For All Meetings & Scheduling: <a href="mailto:info@williams-ruthlaw.com">
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<o:p></o:p></p>
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