<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Thank you so much, Jeff. This is immensely helpful.<div><br></div><div>Amy<br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage"><div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-variant-numeric: normal; font-variant-alternates: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; line-height: normal; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On Oct 21, 2024, at 3:51 PM, Jeff Crollard <jbc@crollardlaw.com> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta charset="UTF-8"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Hello Amy,<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The answer to some of your questions may be in <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=388-97-0300" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">WAC 388-97-0300:</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Subsection (1)(e) says: “(1) The nursing home must provide the resident, before admission, . . . both orally and in writing and in language and words that the resident understands, with the following information: . . . (e) Items, services and activities available in the nursing home and of charges for those services, including any charges for services not covered under medicare or medicaid or by the home's per diem rate.”<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Subsection (7)(b) says: “(7) The nursing home must furnish a written description of legal rights which includes: . . .(b) In the case of a nursing facility only, a description of the requirements and procedures for establishing eligibility for medicaid, . . . .”<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Subsection (9) says: “(9) The skilled nursing facility and nursing facility must prominently display in the facility written information, and provide to residents and individuals applying for admission oral and written information, about how to apply for and use medicare and medicaid benefits, and how to receive refunds for previous payments covered by such benefits.”<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">[FYI, the term “skilled nursing facility” refers to Medicare certification. The term “nursing facility” refers to Medicaid certification. Most nursing homes have both.]<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">You say there are adult sons. If one or more had a POA or otherwise were surrogate decision makers, then they too should have been informed. The main laws setting forth who’s the resident’s surrogate decision maker is here <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://app.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=388-97-0240" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">WAC 388-97-0240:</a> and here <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=70.129.010" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">RCW 70.129.010: Definitions.</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">It’s hard to imagine that the nursing home and home care agency did not send out any billing. The PR can and should request a copy of the billing, the admission contracts, and the facility’s written info complying with WAC 388-97-0300.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">The facility will argue unjust enrichment and breach of contract if she didn’t pay. The sons may be able to counter with a collateral estoppel type argument, if they weren’t notified and justifiably relied upon the facility promises. It would help if you can show she likely would have qualified for Medicaid had the application been filed. You may be able to get the claim denied or negotiated down.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Jeff<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Crollard Law Office, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">336 36<sup>th</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Street, # 436<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Bellingham, WA 98225<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">Phone: 425-864-1710<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><a href="mailto:jbc@crollardlaw.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(70, 120, 134);">jbc@crollardlaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;">This email is confidential and may contain information or documents that are protected by attorney-client, work product, or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, use or reliance upon its contents is prohibited. If you received this email in error, please notify me and then delete the email and any attachments.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman", serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div><div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(225, 225, 225) currentcolor currentcolor; border-image: none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Amy Goertz<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, October 21, 2024 12:23 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[WSBAPT] Nursing Home Claim<o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Good morning - <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">I have a small estate with a 72 yr old woman decedent. She had a home with a mortgage and a DSHS lien ($20k) so the total estate is just over $120k.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">We received a creditor claim of $110k from a law firm in Arizona representing a Spokane nursing home. Here is a quick timeline.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">10/13/22 - Spokane woman on Part C Medicare Advantage plan enters Franklin Hills Health and Rehab in Spokane.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">8/21/23 - Discharged to home with Generations Home Care Spokane (arranged by Franklin Hills).<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">9/4/23 - Taken from home to Providence Sacred Heart Hospital Spokane.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">9/24/23 - Dies in the Hospital.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Adult sons say the Nursing home told them several times they were going to get her on Medicaid. They never did.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Small law firm out of Arizona files a Creditor Claim asking for $89,750 for Franklin Hills care from 12/10/22 - 8/21/22 and $14,078.57 for Generations Home Care from 8/21/22 - 9/4/22. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">The billing they submitted did not show any payments made or any Medicaid status. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Franklin Hills was in the process of either going bankrupt or being bought out during the time she was a patient and the boys said the office was empty most of the time and no one could seem to answer any questions re: billing. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">The sons tell me there was never a single bill sent out during all that time. They were told that Franklin Hills had their mom fill out paperwork for presumably Medicaid for payment and that was the last they ever heard about it. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">The house is sold and there is some money in the Estate account now however there is close or not enough in the Estate to pay these bills. <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Any thoughts about the nursing home failing to get her on Medicaid or send out billings prior to her passing? <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;">Amy<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Lucida Calligraphy";">Amy J. Goertz, J.D.</span></i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: "Lucida Calligraphy";">Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC</span></i><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><a href="mailto:amyjgoertz@icloud.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">amyjgoertz@icloud.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">1.888.926.2607 phone<br>1.877.684.1627 fax<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Address for correspondence:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">2829 S. Grand Blvd., Suite 303<br>Spokane, WA 99203 <o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Additional office locations:<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">510 Bell Street<br>Edmonds, WA 98020<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><a href="http://www.goertzlambrecht.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">www.goertzlambrecht.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Aptos, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"><o:p> </o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0in; font-size: 12pt; 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