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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Similar but different – curious of thoughts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">PR hires attorney but then attorney works mostly with PR kids – Legal fees are outrageous - my clients have gotten screwed (can’t think of any other words) – PR has lied,
36K in legal fees for about a $700,000 intestate estate, pr lived in the home with her children before listing for 2 years plus, on and on. My clients have been emotionally worn down and I probably should have filed before now but…….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Please note that I will be out of the office starting December 4, 2023 until approximately December 18, 2023 for medical reasons, with little to no email for the initial few days. If you need immediate
assistance, please call 509-455-5300 and ask for Sandy Saty. <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold";mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold";mso-ligatures:none">Diane J. Kiepe<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Douglas Eden, P.S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">717 W. Sprague Ave., Suite 1500<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Spokane, WA 99201<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><a href="mailto:djkiepe@depdslaw.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">djkiepe@depdslaw.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">509-455-5300<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">KINDLY ALLOW 2-4 WORKING DAYS TO RECEIVE A RESPONSE TO NON-URGENT EMAILS. FEEL FREE TO SEND YOUR EMAIL (OR RESEND YOUR EMAIL AS THE CASE MAY BE) MARKED URGENT IN THE
SUBJECT LINE.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dalynne Singleton<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 13, 2023 7:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] PRs hiring own children as estate employees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">Joshua, I objected recently to overcharging for a PR based on time and hourly rate and a hearing was held. The commissioner listened – the PR was unemployed and used the PR
time as a job replacement.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">I would look at the time billed for the assistants/family w/o taking into account they were the PR’s children or family. We won the motion but presented quite a bit of evidence
and thorough review of the time/hourly rate being charged and what was reasonable. The PR still received monies and those were what was agreed to so argument was not for nothing to be paid. Of course, she deserved reasonable time and expenses to be paid.
In addition, if the assistants performed work for the low hourly rate being charged, they should be paid. I have had commissioners ask – if you hired someone to do this task, what would you pay? Minimum wage? And yes they get IRS mileage for fuel. If you
want to receive a copy of my motion and evidence, please email me directly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">Dalynne Singleton</span></i></b><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">Gourley Law Group<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">Snohomish Escrow<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">The Exchange Connection<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">1002 10<sup>th</sup> Street / PO Box 1091<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">Snohomish, WA 98291<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">360.568.5065<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">360.568.8092 fax<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif"><a href="mailto:dalynne@glgmail.com" target="_blank">dalynne@glgmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">Website:
</span></u><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif"><a href="http://www.glglawgroup.com/" target="_blank">www.glglawgroup.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">Attorney/client meetings will be handled by teleconference or virtually whenever possible. If you would like to set a telephone conference, zoom, or in person meeting, please
call or email one my paralegals <a href="mailto:selina@glgmail.com">selina@glgmail.com</a> or
<a href="mailto:valerie@glgmail.com">valerie@glgmail.com</a>. Gourley Law Group legal assistant can be reached at
<a href="mailto:paige@glgmail.com">paige@glgmail.com</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif">LICENSED IN WASHINGTON</span></i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Book Antiqua",serif"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua McKarcher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 7, 2023 4:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thank you so much, Andrekita, Claudia, Shannon, Diane, and Phil. Much appreciated insights! Best, Josh
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Diane J. Kiepe<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, November 7, 2023 8:45 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Just to add some insight, I find these are losing battles often but, I might send an objection to opposing counsel indicating you are prepared to formally object based on
inadequate documentation and conflict of interest, but you’d prefer working things out. The reality is, it can cost more to proceed with an objection then to tell you client to cut the losses. I don’t suggest it be a hallow statement though – if your client
is willing to go forward, then don’t say it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The truck bothers me though – I assume there was not letter of instruction……so sad – I am involved in this right now but even worse – PR appears to be a thief and a liar
as far as I can tell.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold";mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Script MT Bold";mso-ligatures:none">Diane J. Kiepe<o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Douglas Eden, P.S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">717 W. Sprague Ave., Suite 1500<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">Spokane, WA 99201<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><a href="mailto:djkiepe@depdslaw.com">djkiepe@depdslaw.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none">509-455-5300<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ligatures:none"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">KINDLY ALLOW 2-4 WORKING DAYS TO RECEIVE A RESPONSE TO NON-URGENT EMAILS. FEEL FREE TO SEND YOUR EMAIL (OR RESEND YOUR EMAIL AS THE CASE MAY BE) MARKED URGENT IN THE
SUBJECT LINE.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua McKarcher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 5:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks, Phil. The harmed parties are the remaining 50% beneficiaries.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The four who charged the fees, etc. are related to Wife who died. My client and his sister are children of the Husband who died previously.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">My client, the son, did not challenge Wife’s sister’s petition for appointment, even though Husband’s will nominated my client as PR of Husband’s estate.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">“<i>Huh?</i>” you fairly ask.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">None of Wife, sister, husband, nor their lawyer ever delivered Husband’s will to my client, the nominated PR, to (1) ask if he’d like to serve because it needed to be probated;
or (2) ask him to decline/renounce so they could instead. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Instead, because 40 days had passed, they simply filed a petition for appointment.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Wondering if this was okay, when served the papers, he called my office, and I agreed to call the petitioning lawyer. (Silly Josh, thinking, “<i>This is little Clarkston.
Surely this is all very simple and can be done efficiently and cooperatively. My client tells me he doesn’t know his stepmother’s family well but assumes they’re nice enough. We don’t need
<u>three</u> PRs for this little estate. It is already ruined at the outset by certifiably horrible documents from a firm two hours north that pumps out incomprehensible RLTs to any living creature who will attend a seminar and accept that probate is Armageddon.
Their ‘work’ has already resulted, for the umpteenth time in our small community, in real property in both the trust’s
<u>and</u> the two decedents’ names, thus requiring two ‘Armageddons’ <u>plus</u> a trust administration
<u>plus</u> a non-judicial TEDRA to resolve bizarre contingent rights of the descendants of the first-generation beneficiaries . . . of this small of an estate. Why complicate things further?</i>”)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Alas. First it was that all the tangible personal property was “theirs” because “they” said it was. And Husband’s truck was “theirs” – not his own son’s – because their
son had “earned it” before Wife’s death. Fixed that; and, after much wrangling (!), got them to let Husband’s two adult children into the house one Saturday to see if they wanted anything
<i>remaining</i> in the house. (Golf clubs were it. The son got his dad’s truck, and the daughter got her dad’s golf clubs. The picture of greedy, surely.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Now, when we received the final accounting, all four checks to these fortunate beneficiaries were already written and cashed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Now we are, naturally, the ones said to be holding things up as I try to process what I’m looking at.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I appreciate the perspective about how this plays out in Oregon. I’m not even sure I’d expect a substantial (say, over 50%) cut on the $15,800; and it would be wrong to
argue for $0. As taught by a partner I worked for early in my career, I try not to ask for something I wouldn’t be willing to “accept” myself. Not all were taught the same, I realize.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks for the insight. Best, Josh<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Philip N. Jones<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 5:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">One question, and one comment:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Who is being harmed here?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Down here in Oregon, these sorts of situations get objected to in the final account, and a hearing is held. In my
experience, judges cut such people down substantially, but not down to zero.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Phil Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">Philip N. Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">Duffy Kekel LLP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">Portland, OR 97204<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none"><a href="mailto:pjones@duffykekel.com">pjones@duffykekel.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">(503) 226-1371 – office<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">(503) 853-1482 – cell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">(503) 226-3574 - fax<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marsha Hudson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 4:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please respond to the list. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marsha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#333300">Marsha C. Hudson</span></b><span style="color:#333300"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">(She/her/hers)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Attorney at Law #23330</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">3221 NW 62<sup>nd</sup> Street, Seattle, WA 98107</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Telephone: 206-297-3933</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Fax: 206-357-9356<br>
</span><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:marsha@griffyn.us" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">marsha@griffyn.us</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Life's most persistent and urgent question is: What are you doing for others? -</span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300"> Martin
Luther King, Jr.<br>
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have received this e-mail in error, please contact me immediately and return the email by forwarding it to this office at </span><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:marsha@griffyn.us" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">marsha@griffyn.us</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300"> and
then deleting the e-mail.<br>
</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#333300">P</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333300"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#333300">Please consider the environment before printing
this e-mail</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua McKarcher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 4:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Elderly co-PRs and co-trustees of a joint probate hired their own underemployed children – who were already beneficiaries, with the co-PRs, of 50% of the estate – to administer
a single home, two cars, a couple bank accounts, and the usual tangible personal property (in non-metropolis Clarkston, mind you).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thus, that “50% of the estate” has charged a
<u>$200,000 net</u> estate <u>over $15,800</u> in time and mileage for 4 people to clean the house, shop, run around town, etc. (This is
<u>additional</u> to the $12,000 in reimbursed expenses the PRs advanced, and $8,000 in legal fees and costs.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fun facts:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Over $8,000 of the fees are of the son and daughter, not the two PRs/trustees.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All 4 charged $20/hour for all services.
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All hours on all 4 timesheets are in
<u>whole numbers</u>, as is all mileage. (Along with mileage are charges for gas fill-ups. Woohoo!)
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">2 hours for each bank visit, often by both PRs.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo6"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">10+ days of the daughter charging 8 hours flat with narrative: “cleaning.”</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo7"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The two kids’ “timesheets” were constructed recently, by reference to calendars and texts, as they didn’t realize
they needed to have kept contemporaneous time records. The co-PRs’ at least were apparently kept contemporaneously, even if generously (by virtue of the rounding).</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I have never encountered this. I do not object to fiduciary or lawyer fees; it’s not my norm at all. But this feels “off.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If you have any experience with addressing such apparent nepotism and potential double dipping – or, even if you have a point of view about its reasonableness or how on
earth one might determine what IS reasonable in such a case – I’d be grateful for your two cents.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I’d even sleep better to be told this is perfectly normal and that co-fiduciaries with non-intervention powers can hire anyone they want, etc., and no Washington caselaw
is going to say otherwise.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks, Josh
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Joshua D. McKarcher</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">McKarcher Law PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Clarkston, WA 99403</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3345</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3314 (fax)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com"><span style="color:#0086F0">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="http://www.mckarcherlaw.com/"><span style="color:#0086F0">www.mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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