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<body lang="EN-US" link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">One question, and one comment:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0in" start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo7"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Who is being harmed here?<o:p></o:p></span></li><li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo7"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Down here in Oregon, these sorts of situations get objected to in the final account, and a hearing is held. In my
experience, judges cut such people down substantially, but not down to zero.<o:p></o:p></span></li></ol>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Phil Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">Philip N. Jones<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">Duffy Kekel LLP<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">Portland, OR 97204<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none"><a href="mailto:pjones@duffykekel.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">pjones@duffykekel.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">(503) 226-1371 – office<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">(503) 853-1482 – cell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;mso-ligatures:none">(503) 226-3574 - fax<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none"> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Marsha Hudson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 4:10 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Please respond to the list. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Marsha<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Papyrus;color:#333300">Marsha C. Hudson</span></b><span style="color:#333300"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">(She/her/hers)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Attorney at Law #23330</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">3221 NW 62<sup>nd</sup> Street, Seattle, WA 98107</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Telephone: 206-297-3933</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Fax: 206-357-9356<br>
</span><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:marsha@griffyn.us" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">marsha@griffyn.us</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">Life's most persistent and urgent question is: What are you doing for others? -</span></i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300"> Martin
Luther King, Jr.<br>
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have received this e-mail in error, please contact me immediately and return the email by forwarding it to this office at </span><span style="color:black"><a href="mailto:marsha@griffyn.us" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300">marsha@griffyn.us</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#333300"> and
then deleting the e-mail.<br>
</span><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#333300">P</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333300"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#333300">Please consider the environment before printing
this e-mail</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">From:</span></b><span style="mso-ligatures:none">
<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua McKarcher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 4:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Elderly co-PRs and co-trustees of a joint probate hired their own underemployed children – who were already beneficiaries, with the co-PRs, of 50% of the estate – to administer
a single home, two cars, a couple bank accounts, and the usual tangible personal property (in non-metropolis Clarkston, mind you).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thus, that “50% of the estate” has charged a
<u>$200,000 net</u> estate <u>over $15,800</u> in time and mileage for 4 people to clean the house, shop, run around town, etc. (This is
<u>additional</u> to the $12,000 in reimbursed expenses the PRs advanced, and $8,000 in legal fees and costs.)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fun facts:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Over $8,000 of the fees are of the son and daughter, not the two PRs/trustees.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l4 level1 lfo2"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All 4 charged $20/hour for all services.
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All hours on all 4 timesheets are in
<u>whole numbers</u>, as is all mileage. (Along with mileage are charges for gas fill-ups. Woohoo!)
</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo4"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">2 hours for each bank visit, often by both PRs.</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l5 level1 lfo5"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">10+ days of the daughter charging 8 hours flat with narrative: “cleaning.”</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in;mso-list:l6 level1 lfo6"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The two kids’ “timesheets” were constructed recently, by reference to calendars and texts, as they didn’t realize
they needed to have kept contemporaneous time records. The co-PRs’ at least were apparently kept contemporaneously, even if generously (by virtue of the rounding).</span><o:p></o:p></li></ul>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I have never encountered this. I do not object to fiduciary or lawyer fees; it’s not my norm at all. But this feels “off.”</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If you have any experience with addressing such apparent nepotism and potential double dipping – or, even if you have a point of view about its reasonableness or how on
earth one might determine what IS reasonable in such a case – I’d be grateful for your two cents.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I’d even sleep better to be told this is perfectly normal and that co-fiduciaries with non-intervention powers can hire anyone they want, etc., and no Washington caselaw
is going to say otherwise.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks, Josh
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Joshua D. McKarcher</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">McKarcher Law PLLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Clarkston, WA 99403</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3345</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3314 (fax)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com"><span style="color:#0086F0">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="http://www.mckarcherlaw.com/"><span style="color:#0086F0">www.mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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