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<div dir="auto">Wow Joshua, what a mess. Did anybody ever tell them that the fees/compensation are taxable income? (vs distributions which increase cash in pockets)</div>
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This sounds like - dare I say it - greed?? C.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Joshua McKarcher <josh@mckarcherlaw.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 5:52:30 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees</font>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks Shannon. I loathe the idea of going to court over this. I just want to know that I’m not absurd to propose a smaller figure that the four of them can divide among
themselves however they wish -- but that represents something much closer to the amount that would have been reasonable to do what needed to be done here. With that I could live, and not even charge my client for negotiating. (Please nobody read this as Josh
running up a bill. I will not bill all this time. There is some principle – and some “local practice standards” – at play here that are worth the time.) Best, Josh
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="">From:</span></b><span style=""> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shannon Jones<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 5:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal">I opposed a PR’s $75 hourly rate and some of her attorney’s fees as excessive and duplicative through a very detailed analysis and (I thought) well-reasoned objection not long ago before the Pierce County Probate Commissioner. Basically
a house and a car but many thousands in fees. The Court Commissioner slightly discounted both the PR hourly rate and some duplicative fees. I did not recover my fees. My client was the only heir. PR was non-relative and non-heir. I had to file a separate TEDRA
because a Declaration of Completion had been filed and served on the heir. Your facts appear perhaps more egregious and you’re in a different county. I would say just make sure your client is prepared for what might end up a financial wash.</p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:13.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:#323E4F">Shannon R. Jones | Attorney
</span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:#323E4F"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:#323E4F">Campbell Barnett PLLC</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">Direct: 253.848.3515</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">Office: 253.848.3513| Fax: 253.845.4941</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:black">Puyallup, WA 98371</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:shannonj@campbellbarnettlaw.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; color:#2F5496">shannonj@campbellbarnettlaw.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif; color:#2F5496">
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><b><span style="">From:</span></b><span style=""> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">
wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Joshua McKarcher<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2023 4:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] PRs/TTEEs hiring own children as estate employees</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Elderly co-PRs and co-trustees of a joint probate hired their own underemployed children – who were already beneficiaries, with the co-PRs, of 50% of the estate – to
administer a single home, two cars, a couple bank accounts, and the usual tangible personal property (in non-metropolis Clarkston, mind you).</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thus, that “50% of the estate” has charged a
<u>$200,000 net</u> estate <u>over $15,800</u> in time and mileage for 4 people to clean the house, shop, run around town, etc. (This is
<u>additional</u> to the $12,000 in reimbursed expenses the PRs advanced, and $8,000 in legal fees and costs.)</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Fun facts:</span></p>
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<li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Over $8,000 of the fees are of the son and daughter, not the two PRs/trustees.</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All 4 charged $20/hour for all services.
</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">All hours on all 4 timesheets are in
<u>whole numbers</u>, as is all mileage. (Along with mileage are charges for gas fill-ups. Woohoo!)
</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">2 hours for each bank visit, often by both PRs.</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">10+ days of the daughter charging 8 hours flat with narrative: “cleaning.”</span></li></ul>
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<li class="x_MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0in"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">The two kids’ “timesheets” were constructed recently, by reference to calendars and texts, as they didn’t realize they needed to have
kept contemporaneous time records. The co-PRs’ at least were apparently kept contemporaneously, even if generously (by virtue of the rounding).</span></li></ul>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I have never encountered this. I do not object to fiduciary or lawyer fees; it’s not my norm at all. But this feels “off.”</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">If you have any experience with addressing such apparent nepotism and potential double dipping – or, even if you have a point of view about its reasonableness or how
on earth one might determine what IS reasonable in such a case – I’d be grateful for your two cents.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">I’d even sleep better to be told this is perfectly normal and that co-fiduciaries with non-intervention powers can hire anyone they want, etc., and no Washington caselaw
is going to say otherwise.</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thanks, Josh
</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Joshua D. McKarcher</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">McKarcher Law PLLC</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">537 6th Street</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Clarkston, WA 99403</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3345</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">(509) 758-3314 (fax)</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:josh@mckarcherlaw.com"><span style="color:#0086F0">josh@mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="http://www.mckarcherlaw.com/"><span style="color:#0086F0">www.mckarcherlaw.com</span></a></span></p>
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